Getting the most out of your Elites

[Jawa Jocky]

I'm currently playing as the Celts and have had 51 elite victories with only 2 GL spawned. (Palace Move and Adam Smith)

I did discover a great GW combo (I'm sure I'm not the 1st). Sun Z and Leonardo are very powerful together.

[vmxa1]

Leo's is more valuable then ever with PTW and the extra opportunities for upgrades.

[Catt]

@ducki - glad to see you're generating leaders. Note that you've got 4 even before MIlitary Tradition. The real leader-fests begin with tanks, the first unit with blitz ability (multiple attacks in the same turn). When you hear about people using leaders on marketplaces, airports, cathedrals, even temples, it is almost always in the era of huge tank / modern armor wars where it is not unheard of to get multiple leaders on the same turn (provided you use them up right away of course .

Four leaders before cavalry is pretty darn good.

Catt

[ducki]

Originally posted by Catt
Four leaders before cavalry is pretty darn good.

The expense is mighty high, though.
My infrastructure is horrid.
I'm embarrased, actually, but that could be partly due to the fact that Japan is not industrious. Still, I don't like it.

My empire is woefully overstretched.
With leader #4, I'm seriously confused as to what to do.
Can a FP city get flipped? if so, I have nowhere to put it and no wonders to build right now. I've already got a 2-samurai, soon-to-be 3-samurai army with my spent Elite* Samurais.


It's also been expensive it terms of diplomatic development. Over half the civs think I'm Dr. Evil or Monty Burns.("I was saying Boo-urns.") 3 of the AIs are what I expect to turn into "problems" in the industrial age.


Generating leaders is definitely a decision. If you set out to create them, you will get them - assuming you pay attention to all that has been written before on this thread and the Wonder Guide thread and others. You need lots of war and lots of elites and lots of "intelligent" battles.

In light of nearly reaching my goal....

I retract all my previous whining about Leaders, though I still think the first Victorious Army for any civ should act like the Manhattan Project for Military Academy. If you make them a priority you will find them. If you don't, you might not.

Still, previous whining about leaders retracted.
I just hadn't focused on them, which is the key.

[Jawa Jocky]

Originally posted by ducki


Can a FP city get flipped?

Yes, but your palace can't. For this reason I usually build the FP close to my capital and then start jump the Palace around for the rest of the game.

[vmxa1]

Since PTW and maybe even 129f I think you can dismiss any concerns about the FP flipping. Unelss you plan on sitting it next to their captiol and let them stay around. Yes it could occur, but not really.

[ducki]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Since PTW and maybe even 129f I think you can dismiss any concerns about the FP flipping. Unelss you plan on sitting it next to their captiol and let them stay around. Yes it could occur, but not really.

That's pretty much exactly my situation.
I really want out of this war and I'd like to put my FP in some of the better land, but it's right next to the Mongols capital.

Or was.

I actually knocked him down to one city now.
Since I'm done with this game once I get leader 5, I'm not gonna stress about the FP this time.

I just wanted to see if my lack of leaders was RNG or Playstyle.

It was playstyle.
Thanks for all the help, everyone!

[Arrian]

I'm typically happy with 3 leaders in ancient/early medieval warfare.

1 for a palace move for FP
1 for one major wonder
1 for an army/HE
(not necessarily in that order, of course)

Any more is gravy. I think the most I've had during that time (ancient/early medieval) is 7. That was ridiculous. IIRC, all seven were created with horsemen. I hadn't even busted out my Samurai yet. That was the game that spoiled me and sent me searching for Ultimate Power.

The wonder I like to rush with a leader is often Sun Tzu, because I sometimes struggle to build all three of the ST/Sistine/Leo trio, and if I have to let one go, it will be ST. But if a leader comes along, the problem is solved. IMO, if you manage to get those three, and the AI does not have the tech for any other wonders (Cops/Bach), you're all set . You break the cascade, make them waste tons of shields, and deny them any benifit.

In my Chinese game mentioned above, I have the Pyramids (captured), Sun Tzu, Sistine, Bach, Smith, Hoover. Well, I actually have everything except the Colossus, Oracle and Great Lighthouse (which I burned to the ground) but bear with me...

This means that every city has a free granary, barracks and hydro plant, all markets/banks/harbors built are free of upkeep, +2 content people per city, and cathedrals have 2x effect. Result: I topped out at $11,000 gold while researching at a 4 turn pace (to be fair, it's on Monarch), before I started buying factories in marginal cities. I'm down to $4500ish now, due to my last rush-buying binge, which included getting the only Ironworks-capable city in my empire up to 10 shields (10 out of 22. Temple, Cathedral, courthouse, policestation, factory all purchased after 1 turn of "building" The city did come with a marketplace and is on a river). Not bad, considering there are 4 cities between it and my palace (at my almost-perfectionist spacing, that's a ways).

I think it's time to install PTW. I bought it last weekend, but haven't got around to it yet.

-Arrian
(sorry for the rambling)

[Catt]

Originally posted by ducki

Can a FP city get flipped?

Ask alexman. I think this was 1.29f, but not certain.

See this thread.

EDIT: I posted a link to a post and meant to post to the thread. Scroll to the top of the thread if you click the link.

Catt

[Arrian]

Yeah, a FP city can flip. I've had it happen once. I knew better, too. I knew the city was at risk and I did it anyway - the game wasn't really going all that well as it was. The city flipped, and I nodded, accepted that I screwed up and quit.

-Arrian

[vmxa1]

It seems to me that if you put the FP in a place that it could flip, it is also in a place that it can be captured or destroyed. IOW not really the best move you could make. I am not going to put an FP or a Palace in such a location. Well I will if I have the troops to smash the near by cities and thereby make the flip/capture highly unlikely. This is more common for me when I drop in on a new land mass and grab one city. The culture is a threat, but I have lots of units. They will counter and then I will start to take down near by cities and maybe cut of the roads. This slows the counter attack and reduce the culture impact.

[Catt]

@vmxa1 -- look at the link I posted a few posts above and go to the beginning of that thread posted by aleman -- he posts before and after minimap shots of his FP city flip and it's not in a position to be captured or destroyed.

That said, I think a flipping FP city must be exceedingly rare.

Catt

[vmxa1]

Catt, I would suspect that is not 129f as I just do not see much flip even in place it should. BUt be that as it may, I think that this case is just so extraordinary that it is not worth considering. It is like being one of the three people in the USA that has a very rare desease, you just can not factor it into your consideration before the fact. It does not change anything I said.

[vmxa1]

I should point out that before 129f I would change my position as I did see freaking flips, although none quite that bad. I had a citiy flip that was isolated from all cities, but mine and had been mine for a long time and was happy, etc and boom. But I do not see that any longer. In fact I have taken to be a little more dangerous with large cities as the flip factor seems lower than ever, but that is only my perception.

[ducki]

Originally posted by vmxa1
as the flip factor seems lower than ever, but that is only my perception.

Or it could be that you've learned how to manage the flip potential better.
Familiarity changes both perception and odds for success..

... as I found out in my Leader Generation Game.