Granaries and walls are almost useless now.

[Kc7mxo]

the problem is that during most of the game fast units dominate, so your catapults and legions are just big targets.

A reasonable strategy given the combat system is to use fast units to wipe out enemy forces, and then bring in the artillery and slow heavy hitters to hit their cities. This seems like a sensible way for the game to play, but it is so boring, i find myself throwing my cavalry on the city before my infantry and artillery arrive out of impatience.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
but it is so boring, i find myself throwing my cavalry on the city before my infantry and artillery arrive out of impatience.

That's the key! Patience. It is hard to hold the soldiers in line sometimes, but that is the duty of their commander.

Sometimes, a mad dash with horsemen, Genghis style, is appropriate; but in critical and dangerous situations, proper planning can make the difference between victory and ignominious defeat.

[barefootbadass]

Originally posted by Kc7mxo
the problem is that during most of the game fast units dominate, so your catapults and legions are just big targets.

The question is how much do fast units dominate now that retreat has been weakened(ie, what are the chances of retreat, with and without elite status)? Also, is there now a roll to retreat if a 1hp vs 1hp situation occurs, or is that situation the same as before?

[AJ Corp. The FAIR]

Swordsmen and catapults

Since the latest 1.17 patch, I've changed my playing style a little bit.

Before I thought the Egyptians were strong (rel&ind): a fast UU from the start, upgradable to cavalry. Military focus, after building enough warriors for exploration and happiness upkeeping, was on building those cheap war chariots and upgrading them asap.
Now fast units aren 't that 'immortal' anymore ...

Right now, until the appearance of cavalry, better defensive and offensive qualities lay in the use of swordsmen & catapults (The ancient Romans actually used this form of combined tactics, eg 'Gladiator'). When being attacked, catapults usually take away one HP of the attacker, effectively improving the odds of the defender.

Building a good road network and fortresses on strategic locations (defensive bonuses, protection of sources and lux.), equipped with catapults and, preferrably, pikemen, will turn your empire in a very tough competitor (playing emperor). Everyone entering your empire unwanted can be attacked from distance first (ok, only 1 range bombard), where the poorer chances of hitting are well smoothened by a serious number of catapults: using roads and well positioned fortifications try reducing your adversaries HP's to the minimum before attacking them with swordsmen. Offensive use (bombarding cities and eventually destroying barracks) can't be underestimated, as mentioned in this thread before (also the upgrade 'trick' from warrior to swordsmen).

Use your catapults both off. and def. in combination with swordsmen/pikemen or better UU's, and after experiencing first successes start building up a reservist horsemen army: helping were needed, finishing off unguarded wounded and becoming your main offensive power with the introduction of cavalry.
Whenever possible, build enough catapults: they will prove usefull all the game until bombers replace artillery (farther distance bombing).

New favorite civ: the French (comm.&ind.):
fast improvements from the beginning, better chances of building wonders (though too risky in ancient times, it's better to build up your combined armies), better money.
Religious ain't that necessary: just switch once to Republic and stick to it (make sure you build or conquer war unhappiness related wonders). In a very competitive game though, the lack of 1-turn anarchy might turn out to be the party spoiler ...

AJ

[star mouse]

Granaries:

I will build a granary in a fast-growing city in the early game (such as one with a few cows) so I can pump out settlers faster. Thus, the city can produce settler, settler, settler, settler instead of spearman, settler, spearman, settler. Only one granary is needed. If doing this, I sometimes have a slow-growing city with good production have Barracks and be the one producing veteran spearmen to go with the settlers.

Walls:

These can come in handy when you're under attack from barbarians. In one case, the presence of rush-built Walls made the difference when I was attacked by a massive uprising of 24 Barbarian knights (a mod). It gave me four Elite spearmen all with red hit points instead of an undefended city ransacked by Barbarians.

[Pius Popprasch]

I rarely build them. But Walls are cheap in a case of emergency and will help your Pikemen to hold the town. But overall I build 1 Walls every 2 games.

[Skanky Burns]

I build walls in almost every city. Why not??

Most of my frontier cities only produce 1 lousy shield, so why not build the cheapest city improvement and increase that cities defences?? While it is rendered obsolete by the city growing above size 6, with an aqueduct taking 60 turns to build (as well as waiting for the pop to grow) it will be a long time before that city will get to size 7.

Also, walls are maintenance free!!

[Zachriel]

Bad play

I usually build walls in all my core cities. They are hardly ever of any value whatsoever. This is a bad strategy and a result of my perfectionist nature.

You should only build walls in towns which will not grow over 6 pop in a reasonable amount of time, such as in deserts or jungles. Then they are occassionally useful.

[star mouse]

Re: Bad play

Originally posted by Zachriel
You should only build walls in towns which will not grow over 6 pop in a reasonable amount of time, such as in deserts or jungles. Then they are occassionally useful.

Especially if those jungle or desert cities are on your frontier with an aggressive civ and you fear invasion.

[Grim Legacy]

The walls are also so cheap to build that it's rarely a big hit to your otherwise thriving towns. Only in the very early game walls can be foregone... but even then they can be used as a 'timer build' to plan the construction of settlers in line with city expansion.

Upkeep is zero, and the 20 shields (1 phalanx!) spent may prevent the later need to build additional spearmen in case of threats or barbs. Also, I was under the impression you could sell them. Maybe not very profitable, but soothening nonetheless.

[belchingjester]

Originally posted by Grim Legacy
The walls are also so cheap to build that it's rarely a big hit to your otherwise thriving towns. Only in the very early game walls can be foregone... but even then they can be used as a 'timer build' to plan the construction of settlers in line with city expansion.

Upkeep is zero, and the 20 shields (1 phalanx!) spent may prevent the later need to build additional spearmen in case of threats or barbs. Also, I was under the impression you could sell them. Maybe not very profitable, but soothening nonetheless.

I frequently use walls as a 'timer' build too - as noted, they are cheap and can improve survival markedly in small cities. I've tried a few different ways, and pop-rushing a granary in an early city can make a big difference in churning out settlers - and an occasional worker.
-belchingjester

[belchingjester]

Originally posted by Skanky Burns
I build walls in almost every city. Why not??

Most of my frontier cities only produce 1 lousy shield, so why not build the cheapest city improvement and increase that cities defences?? While it is rendered obsolete by the city growing above size 6, with an aqueduct taking 60 turns to build (as well as waiting for the pop to grow) it will be a long time before that city will get to size 7.

I misremember - do they re-appear if the population drops below 7? Or is it just they don't confer any benefit if the city's 7 or above?

[Drefsab]

I build graneries in all my size 10-12 cities while researching medicine. That way, they are built by the time I have Sanitation. I start Hosptials immediately and then my cities grow into metropolis' that much faster.

I agree though, they aren't of much use in the early game as you hit size 6, then size 12 pretty quick anyway.

[godinex]

the grnarys are useful only if you build them first

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by godinex
the grnarys are useful only if you build them first

And it ain't over till it's over.