Granaries and walls are almost useless now.

[siredgar]

Especially with all that corruption in Civ 3.

Anyhow, why would you want to have cities grow any faster. I'm busy "pruning" the ones that get to size 6 or 12! The walls are only helpful up until size 6 right? Wouldn't my city grow to that size before the wall even gets built?

I'm just wondering if other people even bother building these city "improvements".

[Jaybe]

Hey, it depends on the situation. Personally, I rarely build walls. Sometimes I build granaries. Once in a great while I even SELL granaries if I don't want the metropolis to get any bigger.

Almost never used the despotic pop-rush anyway, but sometimes a town is in da plains (in Spain, that's where it mainly rains ) and if you want it to get anywhere ... especially if it's in the desert.

Corruption is only a factor if you have too many cities or if the city is really far out. It took me awhile to be okay with the corruption in the outlying districts. Also, you can modify how many cities are too many in the Editor.* Anytime you have more than one shield/gold producing, you have a viable producer. And if you are going for a score win, anyone that's not unhappy is adding to your score.

*I have increased the optimum cities on a huge map to 48 (from 32). I Like Huge maps and several-week-long games.

[Grim Legacy]

Population is strongly correlated with power. Even with unhappiness penalties, there is usually still a benefit to having more citizens (unit support for example).

You'd be wise to re-assess the power of granaries. =)

[Hurricane]

I would say that granaries are useful again, since they eliminated the "size-6 worker factory" strategy. I always had one or two cities pumping out workers which I then used to add to my other cities. No need for any granaries here (except for the ones in the worker factory cities). No the cities will actually have to grow by themselves.

[Marquis de Sodaq]

Walls are very handy if you settle a town along desert, or one that will use only mines - and thus never grow beyond size 6. You will find the AI interested in these towns if they have strategic resources, any little defensive boost is helpful.

[siredgar]

Yes, but how often do you build these things? I still manage to win the game with at least 4000 points without building either of these. Also, you can just invade and take over the Great Pyramids if you really want granaries.

[DaXX]

i've been finding catapults to be one of the weakest units going. the rate of missfire is about 75%, totally unacceptable. at 1 movement point, it trails the rest of the army and requries special protection. their location is always known my the enemy, and is specifically targetted when weakly defended. they can't fire from ships. they can't pass through mountainous nor jungle terrain, if your army is landing at and assaulting from a mountains square, the catapults are worthless.

just my 3 cents

[DrFell]

Granaries were actually more useless in civ2, because of WLTxD (cheaper than granaries and works faster too). Walls are really useless now though I agree. I've never built one.

[Spiffor]

Granaries can be very useful if you tweak the rules a little :
In my rules, monarchy pop-rushes, and granaries are definately handy : because of the high corruption, you have plenty of people to sacrifice to the buildings which would need otherwise 60 turns to complete.
Also, my specialists produce 2 coins or beakers, which makes an overpopulated city more powerful (what specialists produce is not affected by corruption btw).

[Ironwood]

GANERIES:

In the early game, I don't build many graneries. I do build them under the circumstance that I am in some arid territory and need faster population growth to keep up with the neighbors, but other than that (and in the even that I build the Pyramids), I don't build them much.

But EVERY small city gets one once I've got Monotheism. I usually have a good amount of money flowing (I actually place imrpovements over tech in my calculations, since I can always just take the tech by force, but not buildings, and CULTURE is very important), and can quickly rushbuy happiness improvements and graneries, thus increasing my growth rate (and surpassing the neighbors). Once I have sanitation, every city gets a granery, since I want to build the population as quickly as possible (and not lose it immediately if a square gets polluted and the food level drops to negative, or I have a revolution and the drop in food production drops food supply to negative).

WALLS:

I typically only build these on borders I'm happy with (I just station more military where I'm not), or in villages in conquered territory that are at risk. They're really an immediate expediant, not something to keep well into the future. They're also nice because, in the rare event that an enemy manages to cut food production or bomb the population into their graves, upon reaching size 5, it'll still be able to defend itself as well as before.

Occasionally, I build these just because I've already build everything else I need to build, and have the time to waste. It's nice to have, and it doesn't cost anything to maintain. This happens frequently when I'm playing an Industrial civilization, mainly because the quick terrain improvements speeds up my building production.

[Panag]

well graneries ; they are usefull , why , well if food production is slow , and as for coruption , i went to check it , it depends where you are (city)

wall's , hmmmm , under or on size 6 they can be usefull if you are with the sity on a border or on a remote corner of the world !


have a nice day

[barefootbadass]

Walls are dirt cheap and there is no upkeep to them. They can't hurt in very high corruption cities that you aren't going to give an aqueduct.

Granaries aren't very useful to me until I'm ready to grow to 12, since pop rush is weak now. Only build in dedicated worker/settler cities.

[Kc7mxo]

I only place walls in places where I think the ai might sneak attack me, and I don't feel like stomping all over his face.

Granaries. . . . . aren't much help anymore. If I want them, I just conquer whoever built the pyramid. Which I believe is the consensus of opionion.

[Zachriel]

Originally posted by DaXX
i've been finding catapults to be one of the weakest units going. the rate of missfire is about 75%, totally unacceptable. at 1 movement point, it trails the rest of the army and requries special protection. their location is always known my the enemy, and is specifically targetted when weakly defended. they can't fire from ships. they can't pass through mountainous nor jungle terrain, if your army is landing at and assaulting from a mountains square, the catapults are worthless.

just my 3 cents

I just had a glorious war against the Zulus. Their capital was on a hill and defended by impis, so horsemen wouldn't work. I drew up my swordsmen and my catapults. Patience was the essential ingredient. I had about 10 catapults, and it took about five turns, but the barracks were destroyed and the impis sufficiently weakened. The next turn we took the city with no casualties.

I don't use catapults much, but they worked well in this instance.

[Zachriel]

Re: Granaries and walls are almost useless now.

Originally posted by siredgar
Especially with all that corruption in Civ 3.

Anyhow, why would you want to have cities grow any faster. I'm busy "pruning" the ones that get to size 6 or 12! The walls are only helpful up until size 6 right? Wouldn't my city grow to that size before the wall even gets built?

I'm just wondering if other people even bother building these city "improvements".

I often pop-rush a granary in the capital near the beginning of the game. I also pop-rush a temple in the outlying cities to secure my cultural perimeters. This is the only pop-rushing I do, and never more than one pop per town.

Walls are useful in minor towns where they won't grow fast.