Got my first leader, some advice please..

[Brundlefly]

Yes, it's still one of my favourite Wonders, I usually try to go for it as quickly as possible. And I usually get it to. I'll put off Iron Working and work towards Literature as soon as I have my basic defensive units. I don't get nearly as many free techs as I did in the other civ games though.

I used to make a beeline for Literature, too, until I realized that doing so often means you could fall behind in Power relative to other civs. Since the amount of techs you own is a component of Power and your Power has a lot to do with your effectiveness in diplomacy, somtimes it's better to just research the tech that will take the shortest time to complete, regardless of what tech it is.

[Harovan]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Got my first leader, some advice please..

Originally posted by Willem
But once you get Astronomy, your Galley can end it's turn in a sea square anyway, so what's the point? Granted if you were on an isolated island, I can see the value, but since I play with continents anyway, it's not really worth the effort.

Once I get Astronomy (in the medieval era), I see all those islands already occupied by the civ that built the Great Lighthouse (in the ancient era), unless I am lucky and this civ is at another continent.

But I would never rush an ancient great wonder with a leader though. The first wonder I consider to be worth to be rushed is either the FP or the Sistine.

[vmxa1]

How about Hanging Garden?

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
How about Hanging Garden?

Are helpful for the moment, but expire too soon. If you are in need for some happy faces (if you are short with luxuries), grab them, but I would not waste a leader for it.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Feephi


I used to make a beeline for Literature, too, until I realized that doing so often means you could fall behind in Power relative to other civs. Since the amount of techs you own is a component of Power and your Power has a lot to do with your effectiveness in diplomacy, somtimes it's better to just research the tech that will take the shortest time to complete, regardless of what tech it is.

Well I'm playing Americans, so it doeasn't really make any difference to me what I research. I can get all the techs of the Ancient Era just from the goody huts. In a lot of cases, it's quicker to just wait until I pick up the tech, rather than research it. So I don't really lose out on anything by going for Literature. In fact I'm usually way ahead by the Middle Ages.

[vmxa1]

You are always looking for happy faces at Monarch or higher levels are you not? Below that level, you can do anything you want as you really can't lose. I am not saying I would go for HG with a leader, it would depend on the level and the status. If that is the only wonder I can make at the time, I will use the leader. I do not put up FP until a later time as the first 10-12 cities do not need it and the next 6-8 are not strong enough to be sure to hold it and are usually captured cities. Once the second wave (6-8 group) are solid and will not be on the very front lines, then I put up the FP in one of them. This gives its benefits to the max number and puts pressure on the nearby AI cities. Remember I am at war most of the time. If I go 10 turns without a war I will probably start one, I do not want them getting stronger and I want to expand. At this time most land is claimed (std maps or smaller).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
You are always looking for happy faces at Monarch or higher levels are you not? Below that level, you can do anything you want as you really can't lose. I am not saying I would go for HG with a leader, it would depend on the level and the status. If that is the only wonder I can make at the time, I will use the leader...

Right, but only one content citizen per city (except for 3 in the city that built the wonder) just to see it getting obsolete with Steam power makes the usage of one of your scarce leaders a waste. Better beeline for Theology and rush the Sistine, that gives +3 content citizens in all cities with a cathedral (a must for both culture and contentment) and never expires.

[vmxa1]

It is not a waste, having a GL sitting on his butt is a waste. You can not get another leader if you already have one. It will be a long time from HG to Sistine. By the time Sistine is available I will have another leader, in fact I will likely not need one as I can build the wonder before them anyway by then. Prior to then I can not make a wonder before them (they often get it one turn before me). This is due to having everyone at war with me most of the time, I have now wore them down and they are now seeing that I am hard to beat, so they start in on each other. I am going for Mil Acad and taking cities away, the light are starting to go out for them. True it has been a bugger up till then and some very tough battles and close calls. But once I am in this part of the game, they are doomed. Note I am talking about Monarch/Emp games. Diety is different and not really any fun IMHO and below Regent is a freeroll (for all you poker players).

[Harovan]

Originally posted by vmxa1
It is not a waste, having a GL sitting on his butt is a waste. You can not get another leader if you already have one.

That's not true. We just had 2 GL's at the same time in our succession game (the French). Others reported to have more than 1 GL at the same time too.

EDIT: Things depend also on your style. While also playing Monarch games, I absolutely hate to be at war with everybody in the ancient era. I prefer builder style and make just short decisive wars in due times. I rarely get a leader out of them and if I do, it's just too valuable to be wasted. I'm aware, that a war monger probably gets a leader every 10th turn, but that's not the kind of games I enjoy.

[Allemand]

Sure, you can get two, but the odds are so high against you that it's better to use them right away and lower the odds. I got three GL's in a recent war (never had more than one in play at a time). Would have gotten more, but I saved the last one and that put the odds so high that I didn't get another, although fighting more battles with elite units than I had done to that point.

[vmxa1]

I never seen a second leader generated while one was in a city (army does not count), since the patch and I have played dozens of games and not seen it, others say it is not possible post patch. If it does happen is rare, really rare and won't change the fact that you have leader worth all lot of shields doing nothing while you go up the tech tree. This could be all hell of a lot of turns. I would prefer to play builder ala civ2, but war is forced on you in civ3. You are not allowed to sit around.

[Harovan]

Originally posted by Allemand
Sure, you can get two, but the odds are so high against you that it's better to use them right away and lower the odds. I got three GL's in a recent war (never had more than one in play at a time). Would have gotten more, but I saved the last one and that put the odds so high that I didn't get another, although fighting more battles with elite units than I had done to that point.

The odds of getting a leader out of an elite unit's victory are 1/16 normally, and 1/12 if you're either militaristic or have the Heroic Epic, regardless if there's an existing leader or not. There's no guarantee to get a leader even in 100 straight wins of elite units. Your example proves nothing.

[Ironikinit]

Jeez, I'd really like to see two GLs in the game at once. Several people have vouched for it happening. It just seems odd that I haven't. I often play militaristic civs and getting GLs isn't unusual. I often have 12 or more elites attack each turn in long wars, I just haven't got two at the same time.

I'd like to have input on what people do with their GLs in the late game, when wonders don't take long to build and often are a little cheesy anyway (Longevity for example). Rush cathedrals in corrupt cities? I can build armies by then with the academy.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Sir Ralph

The odds of getting a leader out of an elite unit's victory are 1/16 normally, and 1/12 if you're either militaristic or have the Heroic Epic, regardless if there's an existing leader or not.

Not true. This has been proven to be wrong. Check out this thread: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=36623 . The test by Hurry (me) shows that a second leader was spawned only if the first one was used.

In other words, either you can´t have two leaders at the same time, or then the probability of getting a second one is much lower if you already have one active.

[Hurricane]

Originally posted by Ironikinit
I'd like to have input on what people do with their GLs in the late game, when wonders don't take long to build and often are a little cheesy anyway (Longevity for example). Rush cathedrals in corrupt cities? I can build armies by then with the academy.

In my current game I have got 16 leaders (Iroquis), sometimes two during the same turn, but never had two at once.

I rushed 3 ICBM:s with my latest leaders and blasted China out of the space race.