2 Strategy Questions

[The ANZAC]

Hi and thanks for taking a look at this thread. Here they are:

1. How do you get around a lot of the restrictions associated with rush building? It's nice to get stuff done quickly, but not by killing citizens.

2. How do you increase your science rate? I don't mean go to the menu, but get money to be able to get libraries and the such, while not fall behind? Because it seems like the research rate is very slow and I can't get to the library tech quickly because I need to focus on other things or else I get passed by with the military and people start treading on me.

BTW, unrelated, doesn't it seem odd that chariots come before horsemen and have less ability? Wouldn't you think it would take more skill to have a chariot than jump on the back of a horse and ride?

Thanks.

The ANZAC

[Kekkonen]

1. Switch to an improved form of government. If you're in Monarchy or better, you get to rush build with gold. However, there are times when rush building with people is just fine, like when you've reached the maximum possible population under your current tech level and government.

2. Get more cities, and build roads on all workable squares in the city radius. Roads give you more commerce, which equals more gold, which you can use to increase tech spending.

You know, that was exactly what I thought of the Wheel/Chariot and Horseback Riding/Horseman. Not only are the unit values backwards (horseman or light cavalry is a scout unit, chariot is an early assault unit), but the techs seem to be ass-backwards too. I'd also guess that our ancestors first thought "hey, if I could somehow get on the back of that beastie and make it go where I want it to go, it could do the walking for me" and only then "lemme see... if I could somehow tie a couple of horsies together, I could use them to pull stuff".

[wunder]

Re: 2 Strategy Questions

Originally posted by The ANZAC

2. How do you increase your science rate? I don't mean go to the menu, but get money to be able to get libraries and the such, while not fall behind? Because it seems like the research rate is very slow and I can't get to the library tech quickly because I need to focus on other things or else I get passed by with the military and people start treading on me.

Here is my new thing... In the early part of the game, I trade my techs with anyone who is willing to pay. This allows me to set my research rate at 100% while the other civ's pay for my improvements! Ounce I've established my civ's economy, I then scale back the tech selling and take over any civs in my way!!

This is a great early game strategy if you miss out on the Great Library.

[Messer Niccolò]

Re: 2 Strategy Questions

Originally posted by The ANZAC


BTW, unrelated, doesn't it seem odd that chariots come before horsemen and have less ability? Wouldn't you think it would take more skill to have a chariot than jump on the back of a horse and ride?

Thanks.

The ANZAC

Well yes and no.
I think it is different to take horses that have to "pull" chariots than to train horses to respond to "orders" that can be given through your legs (remember that the horse rider has often the hands involved with bow/spears+shields while on the chariot the driver has often 1 hand "free" or, there are 2 charioteers: 1 driver and 1 spearman or whatever is called and you "command" with bridles)...
But I'm neither a military expert nor an horse rider...

[Jurassic Joe]

I'm doing the same thing as Wunder, sell my techs to the other civs for lump sums and Per/turn sums. This allows me to set my science rate at 100% and I can then outright buy the advances that I don't get and sell them too. When the other civs buy your advances with the per/turn rate, they have to reset their own tax/research level and thus they slow down. You however are cruising. I am also going straight for monarchy and sending out lots of warriors to scout the terrain and meet other civs.

The deal with the chariots is that they were invented quit early and massed together they were effective. The problem with the horse is that the stirrup was not invented for a long time. This made the horsemen unstable on their mounts and not as effective. I'm not sure when the stirrup or the sadle were invented. I'm pretty sure that sadles came first and really improved the horsemen and then the stirrup came after the fall of the Roman empire. I could be wrong about the timeline, but when the Egyptians rode their chariots into battle it was pretty terrifying.

[sophist]

I believe the stirrup came into existence in the west sometime during the middle ages. Ever wonder why there were no knights in the Roman Empire? No stirrups, no lance, no heavy armor, no knights. I think the origin may have been with the Turkic/Mongol/etc. tribes that constantly came out of Central Asia, but I'm not sure on that one. So that would post-date the horsemen...

[Marquis de Sodaq]

There was (some time ago) a heated discussion about the chariot/horseman question. The general idea is that, as Messer Nicolo points out, simply attaching something to a horse and making it run is much simpler than getting on its back and having it be your battle partner.

As for the strategy questions, I don't even have the game yet, so I can't make any suggestions...

[The ANZAC]

1. That clears up a lot. When you have a more advanced government, can you choose between the two?

2. The science ideas make sense. thanks!

Now the horses: Can you ride bareback? Or is it too hard to fight like that? Also in the movie Gladiator, and I 've read the Romans did have cavalry. Then again it is Gladiator!!

[Dienstag]

ANZAC, I believe you only get one method of rushing production per government type. Population points for Despotism and Communism, gold for the few *sniff* other government types.

Who cares about Roman cavalry? I want one of those fire-spear thingies from the beginning of Gladiator. How demoralizing it must be to be impaled be a huge spear from a great distance and also set on fire!

[The ANZAC]

Yes, it would be nice if the scorpion was in Civ3!!!!!

[Blaupanzer]

Civ III reflects historical development as inevitable much more than Civ 2 did. In real history, the chariot way predates mounted combat units on the battlefield. The stirrup is generally credited to the Byzantines (Eastern Roman Empire) in the 900s. This permitted heavy cavalry like the knight (called cataphracts by the Byzantines). Light cavalry as an effective battle force (the horseman, if you will) is introduced to history by the nomads that arrived along Rome's border at about the time of Julius Caesar. Of course chariots had long since come and gone. Horsemen were fairly common by the time of Alexander in Asia and are important as mercenaries in the wars between Rome and Carthage. Any way, the chariot came first in actual history, and Civ III reflects that.

[MaSsConFUsi0n]

anzac, there is only one way to rush build per government. despotism and communism kill populations, everything else uses gold. if you're communist or despotism, then the pop killer is good for those cities on the fringes that have no production... just irrigate the hell out the surrounding land and rush build your entire army with those cities and let your core cities get fat and rich...

MaSsConFUsi0n

[Der PH]

Originally posted by Blaupanzer
The stirrup is generally credited to the Byzantines (Eastern Roman Empire) in the 900s.

Sure about that?
As far as I know, even Charlemagne had heavy knights. And heavy knights are not possible without stirrup. That was about 800 BC.

EDIT: 800 AD!!!! (of course!)

[Badtz Maru]

Originally posted by Der PH


Sure about that?
As far as I know, even Charlemagne had heavy knights. And heavy knights are not possible without stirrup. That was about 800 BC.

Charlemagne lived from 742 AD to 814 AD. Hard to be the defender of the Church 800 years before the birth of Christ. 8^) Anyway, the paladins of Charlemagne's court wore mail hauberks, scale shirts, or occasionally laminar armor. The plate armor associated with heavy knights was practically unknown until around the 12th century AD.

Stirrups appear to have been invented first in China around the first century AD. It took some time for them to get around to using them in the western world, however.

[Der PH]

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Charlemagne lived from 742 AD to 814 AD.

Sorry!
I certainly meant AD!

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Anyway, the paladins of Charlemagne's court wore mail hauberks, scale shirts, or occasionally laminar armor.

Heavy enough, I think!
What about chain mail?

Originally posted by Badtz Maru
Stirrups appear to have been invented first in China around the first century AD. It took some time for them to get around to using them in the western world, however.

That's the info we wanted!
Do you know, in which century th stirrup came to western Europe?