Troubles with the Great Library

[Dr. A. Cula]

Ok, so I read some tactics about the Great Library a while ago and decided to use them. Well, they didn't work for me. Every game I played, I manage to beat to AI to it, then switch to 90% taxes, and expect my neighbours to keep up with their insane research rate I was already used to. Not. By the time I build the GL, my non-scientific neighbours are 3-4 techs behind me, while my scientific ones research at about the same rate as me. I switched back to the normal research rate when someone from another continent built Leonardo's Workshop, while I was still waiting for my neighbours to develop monarchy.
Those ignorant bums didn't start researching even after I gave them all my techs.

What happened? Did I miss something? What else can I do?

Can someone explain this or at least point to a relevant thread? All the threads I found on the subject focused on how your neighbours are happily researching away while you get stuff from the GL.

[Harovan]

It can happen, that due to over-pruning or simply bad terrain (desert, hills, jungle, no rivers) the civs on the own continent are too weak to do considerable research. The Great Library is pretty useless under these circumstances (other than having denied it to the other civs).

There is a radical solution. Build suicide galleys. Build a lot of them. 10 should make it under all circumstances. Find that other continent.

[Cort Haus]

You're playing continents, right? Try Pangea or 'Pelago - you get to meet everyone and the tech flies faster. As Ralph says - if you've alreadty smacked everyone down they may be too weak to research, or poor (riverless) terrain is slowing things down (which is rare, I find).

[Dr. A. Cula]

I think I'll try the suicide galleys gambit.

I always play huge maps + continents. The games I'm talking about have everybody put in nice starting locations, with plenty of space to expand into (and also a nice asortment of resources), so no one should have great difficulties doing anything. For instance, my last game had me as Carthage sharing a very large continent with Germany and Mongolia (germans had iron next to Berlin, mongols had horses nearby, while I had to stretch very far to get either - so they actually had me at a disadvantage). Between us, we had occupied about half of the continent when I stopped REXing and focused on ancient era wonders. The germans expanded some more (until they were about twice my size) then stopped and went after barbarians, while I have no idea what the mongols were doing, because the only mongol unit I saw was their initial scout and their territory had not expanded in eons (only slightly smaller than mine). When I quit, the germans finally got ahead of me by getting Feudalism for free, while the mongols were at least 5 techs behind. Meanwhile, on the other continent, for the past 2 or 3 turns, other civs had built the Hanging Gardens, Sun Tzu's, Mike's and Leo's. That was a bit too much.

[vmxa1]

Yup the GL is not worth a crap if you do not have contact with the other civs. It is not worth much if you are playing at lower levels as the AI will not be able to research fast enough anyway.

[burly]

Slightly off topic.
Speaking of the great Library. Has anyone ever had a problem getting the tech's you are entitled from the GL? You're supposed to get any tech's known by 2 contacts or more. I've played games that I can see the available techs in the trade window for 4 or 5 turns before I get them from the Great Library. I thought it was supposed to be instantaneous!? This has happened in more than one game, with and without being at war with said AI Civs.

Is this a common problem?

[vmxa1]

I never noticed it, but I often do not attempt to build the GL. It is too risky for me unless I am playing Monarch. I hate it when I have the thing near done and a civ finishes and I have no other wonder. Goodbye shields. So Monarch and Deity, I will usually make a run for it. At Emperor, I will often not.

[MrWhereItsAt]

burly I think you may not get the techs until the next civ you know that DOESN'T have the techs gets them. Either that or only one civ has had the tech you wanted for some time, and you get it only when another civ researches/trades for it.

[OPD]

The GL can be very useful in terms of exploits to get techs way beyond edu.

In one PBEM I'm playing I made an agreement with another player who had the GL whereby I didn't research or get Education and neither of us did any research, then once the other nations reached the IA the city with the GL was gifted to me, giving all techs up to the IA.

[FrustratedPoet]

If you are 3 or 4 techs in front of the AI by the time you build the GL then it sounds like you don't need it. Don't worry about it and just don't build it in your next game, it sounds like you're doing fine without it.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the GL does not give you techs that two other civs you know already have - it gives you techs when a civ you know discovers that tech and another civ already owns it.

So, if everyone BUT you already has, say, Code of Laws, you're not gonna get Code of Laws from the GL. Research it your own damn self.

As for the GL being ineffective on a huge map, continents setting, I must say that's surprising, especially given how many obnoxious expanionists you're likely to be surrounded by in any given game.

I find the GL to be immensly helpful in dealing with the obnoxious "The Zulus and Mongols are more advanced than me" problem. Just let them scout and trade while you head for currency, monarchy if you want it, etc.

I find it to be the most helpful ancient wonder on a huge map with continents. Are you playing with the max number of other civs?

[FrustratedPoet]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong

You're wrong.

I've definitely had some games where I've been a long way behind in tech and got 5 or 6 of them the turn after completing the GL so I'm 99% sure it's done on "Who Has The Tech" rather than "Who Just Discovered The Tech".

[badman]

You get every tech at least two other civs know, the very turn some civ discovers a tech that another civ already has and which you don't have.
I hope you can understand my clumsy English. :O

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by FrustratedPoet
If you are 3 or 4 techs in front of the AI by the time you build the GL then it sounds like you don't need it. Don't worry about it and just don't build it in your next game, it sounds like you're doing fine without it.

his might put the GL on a lower priority, but it should be built in order to prevent the AI's from benefiting ffom it.

[The Mad Monk]

Discovers, or acquires?