Clipping the Celtic Wings

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Perhaps this thread will be defunct when Conquests is released, complete with new civ traits, but in the meantime...

...who here has problems with the Celts consistently becoming a large, and difficult to subdue, empire in your world, unless you're lucky enough to wipe them out in the early game? Raise your hands!

Well, I consistently find that if the Celts are allowed to unleash their swordsmen across whatever continent they're on, they end up taking a big chunk of it for themselves... this translates into more empire-building power for them, made easier I suppose by the religious trait...

...and, generally, the Celts end up with a very impressive army, at whatever stage in the game one must confront them.

I don't like to take the Celts on when they first build their Gaelic Swordsmen. After all, that's a whup-ass unit, and I prefer to leave the whup-ass can closed early in the game. I often invite the Celts into MAs against my targets (especially if the target is far from the Celtic core) just to keep the Celts off my back... but this often seems to backfire, if the Celts win victories and gain cities I covet.

So, then, I solicit any advice anyone can spare regarding the Celts, and keeping them in their proper place. Obviously, if you're lucky enough to start near them, you can put them down and keep them from iron. But if you're not, what do you do?

[CerberusIV]

I have never found the celts to be that strong in my games and I reduced the shield cost of the gallic swordsman to 40.

Brennus is actually one of the more reasonable AI leaders to negotiate with. Keep your military up to strength and the celts will probably leave you alone.

They are strongest on pangaea maps so you could play continents or archipelago. Also turn cultural linking off as they don't do well against the mediterranean civs or any industrious civ.

[GhengisFarbâ„¢]

I have been finding the exact opposite. I can't figure out anyway to keep the Celts in existence through the late Middle Ages, they always get wiped out.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by GhengisFarb
I have been finding the exact opposite. I can't figure out anyway to keep the Celts in existence through the late Middle Ages, they always get wiped out.

That's the way it is for me too. I haven't ever seen the Celts become a major player in SP games. It has the traits to go either way, and a good warlike UU, but it just seems like it gets caught in the middle and tries to be all things...succeeding at none.

As for advice on dealing with powerful Celts. As you stated you can practice resource denial if you're close to them. If you're not close to them then try to get some allies to declare war on them and fight your battle for you.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Hmmm, well, I feel a bit stupid posting about what I assumed was a common problem... I too have seen the Celts wiped out, generally early on, but far too often I've seen them grow to be big bad boys, along with Carthage.

In so far as encouraging neighbors to attack the Celts, I have practiced this tactic unsuccessfully as well.

My current predicament: I am playing as the Zulus, located in the center of my continent. To the Northwest are the Arabs (beyond them, the English), to the Northeast the Babylonians (beyond them, the French and Germans). To the south are the Spanish, and to the West, where they helped me divide the Ottoman Empire, the Celts. To their West are the tiny Vikings.

The Impi is an alright unit to deal with onrushing Gaelic swordsmen, but I'm in a war with the Arabs now, and am just beginning to put the infrastructure in place to wage long, costly wars.

[ChrisiusMaximus]

The Celts are indeed a strong opponent if left unchecked and allowed to dominate their continent, I have just had a long and brutal war as Egypt fighting the Celts in a late game modern war.

One suggestion play as the Celts then you solve your problem.

[vmxa1]

The game I am playing now is the first time I recalled the Celts lasting into the modern age.
They only just now got into a war with me and that is the reason they are still here.
The Koreans were the first threat, then I chopped them some. It became Japan and then another unusal civ for me, the Greeks.
I am chopping them now. India and Germany are on an island together and have not been in the action.
Rome was the civ closest to me, so they were first out.

[Solomwi]

The only time the Celts frighten me is in the Iron Age. Playing on huge maps pretty much exclusively, though, I can usually hold off conflict until the GS isn't such a terror. At that point, I've never had much trouble taking them out at my leisure. They still put up a good fight, but not enough to put the outcome in doubt.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
One suggestion play as the Celts then you solve your problem.

I love playing those orange-haired spear-slicers! If playing against them, I usually cosy up to them till their danger passes.

[Theseus]

Future AU game: you are [the worst early/mid civ...tbd], crap land, missing resources, and are surrounded by the bad boys, who have it all. And, oh, btw, aggression is dialed up.

Have a nice day ....

[DaveMcW]

*cough*AU 208*cough

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Hey, AU 208 is a slightly different premise... besides, the Iroquois were nearby, and, despite their *****in' UU, I don't think they truly qualify as the "bad boys"...

[vmxa1]

Well it mets most of those criteria, not the surround, but you sure have no resources and the land at the start sucked.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, that is true.

BTW, I just took out the Celts in my most recent game... after a MA against the Arabs in which the Celts captured Najaf and two other cities, and I captured the rest, the Celts were polite enough to retreat all their Gaelic Swordsmen and Medival Infantry to those cities... I noticed that it is actually much more helpful to wait until the Celts have upgraded their GSs... sure, Med. Inf.s have 1 more point of offense, but they sure can't move as quick... it's easier to pick off a 4/2/1 unit than a 3/2/2 unit, that's for sure, and the AI upgraded 90% of their swordsmen.

I made sure, of course, that I took out the Celts before they had Chivalry. I think this helped a lot... their infrastructure is typically shoddy around this time, so cutting off their iron supply is easier... letting them get knights, and then having to face a large army of vet/elite knights, is a lot scarier than facing down a large army of vet/elite med. inf., IMO...

[Catt]

FWIW, I view the Celts as a dangerous early-game neighbor, but a helpful long-term AI. They might present a direct challenge early, but if I can avoid a costly war (as opposed to a "not costly" war) with them, they can do a lot of dirty work for me. I find the Celts often acquire a large empire early but are woefully inept at managing it later. If the Celts are distant and beat up on AI civs that otherwise have an inherent advantage, then Brennus is a good friend.

Catt