Success, the Indians and You

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I have next to nothing. Many towns are garrisoned with 1 warrior and 1 spear, about 4 towns have 3 spears, several have 2 spears or 1 warrior and 2 spears.

In addition to that, I have two regular swordsmen and 4 or 5 veteran horsemen. I'm certainly in no position to fight a big war, but I think I could handle any feeble force to be thrown at me at the current moment.

My only real concern would be an attack on my Northern coast city... forget the name right now, but it's on flood plains near forest and is defended only by 1 warrior.

If you have a chance, O Arrian Before Whom I Bow, load my game up and tell me what I should be building now. Do you see war brewing? I don't, at the current moment, so I guess I've felt free to build marketplaces rather than more units (in order to pay for more units, of course).

In fact, everyone who can, load up my game and give me some feedback. This is a rare position for me, having so much flexibility going into the middle ages.

[Nor Me]

I've looked at the save. I'd have still more workers and definately less spearmen. Warriors, archers, chariots, etc. are all more useful than spearmen.

The omens are so good for war that I'd start building barracks and horsemen now instead of marketplaces. You could catch up with building during your GA and tech then wouldn't be a problem.

I'd aim to take Madrid and Barcelona soon. You shouldn't need that many units and Madrid wouldn't be uselesss.

Then I'd think about eventually attacking the Mongols or Korea. Unfortunately the Koreans do have Iron (it's under one of their cities). If you could attack the Mongols before their UU comes out then that would be useful.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Nor Me
Then I'd think about eventually attacking the Mongols or Korea. Unfortunately the Koreans do have Iron (it's under one of their cities). If you could attack the Mongols before their UU comes out then that would be useful.

AAAAAARRRRGGGGH. Thank you for drawing that to my attention. Lord, I hate that sort of thing. Well, maybe I'll put the Koreans off while I do Spain and the Mongols.

Anyone second this opinion? Or disagree?

[Arrian]

The quickest force to get up and running is a sword force via upgraded warriors.

You have 3 barracks towns, right? Pump vet warriors until you have about 10 (while reducing science spending, you don't need a tech lead right now) and connect iron & upgrade them. Then whack Spain (Nor Me says it should be easy, so I figure 10 swords should do it).

Once that force is sent off, build some horsemen. Markets too, of course, but definitely get some horsies in there.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

So, you would say focus on building my military even if it means losing wonders to Korea (or overseas types I haven't met yet)?

[Nor Me]

You've already lost the important wonders and should take it positively if Korea builds any. In your position I'd build one which would become Leo's if timed right for a horsemen upgrade or Sistene's otherwise.

[Arrian]

Maybe. I guess I'd have to look at the save.

Like I said, the warrior-sword thing is a quick 'n easy thing to do. 15 warriors from 3 cities should take you ~10 turns (2 turns per warrior). Build up 600 gold and kick ass. Meanwhile, return to building.

Whether or not to devote significant resources to horseman production is a judgement call... it seems that you have some potent overseas civs snatching up wonders unfortunately, so that could cost you. But if the Mongols show up with a bunch of Keshiks and you aren't prepared, that's worse.

Losing wonders to Korea, a neighbor, isn't a big deal because if you lost the wonders due to building your military, you can then use the military to take them away from Korea. You can't do that if an overseas civ builds a wonder (not for a while, anyway).

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

To be honest, I don't know the power and potential of the overseas civs. Carthage built the Great Library, and I think Egypt might have built the Pyramids, but everything else is "local". No one's built the Great Wall.

It doesn't seem like I'll lose out overseas, but...

As for "the important wonders" being built already, I strongly disagree. Maybe I'll come to see things your way when I move up in difficulty, NorMe. But from my point of view, Sun Tzu's, Sistine's, Leo's and Bach's are the most important wonders, followed by Adam Smith's and then the industrial age wonders. I could care less about the Pyramids. I wouldn't mind having the two GLs.

As for the Mongols... yes, those Keshiks would be worrysome, but then again, they have but one source of horses and I believe only 5 cities, so I'm not too worried. China is much more of a threat, with multiple horses and iron sources and a large empire.

[Arrian]

Update from the front:

-Persia is down to 1 city, which I will destroy in 2 turns.
-China has lost the bulk of their core, including Beijing (which I razed).
-I have generated 5 Leaders (Univ Suff, Factory, ToE, Hoover, Ironworks)
-I have infantry & artillery

China never did manage to do much damage to me, even during the 6 turns when my best defender was musketmen. They didn't even take any of the little border towns.

The thing that just kills me is that Persia, down to one city which they cannot possibly hold, will not fork over Nationalism for peace. In fact, not only will they not cough it up, they would require 2000+ gold for it as part of the peace deal. It's so much easier to extort in the ancient age. So whatever, Persia dies now instead 20 turns from now, and I'll research nationalism myself.

China, on the other hand, may be allowed to live. I'm not sure yet. It might take too long to kill them for it to be worth it. The remainder of their cities are on so-so or bad land, fairly far from my new capitol (in Persia). Whereas the Carthaginian cities... well, they're kinda right there, see...

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

I have an update too, and it's bloody as well!

I sort of mixed and matched my own playstyle with the advice recieved here. Right after finishing Sun Tzu's, I decided to take on Korea. It was not difficult. It was accomplished with about, oh, 15 horsemen and 3 swordsmen (all these figures are approximate as I do not take copius notes). Spain sneak attacked me, which leads me to an...

OFF-TOPIC RANT

Why does Spain always sneak attack? Even if it's against their better interests? In the last games with Spain in a row, they have sneak attacked one of my cities. I don't understand. Isn't their Aggression Level 3?

RANT CONCLUDED

Anyhow, using my Korean troops, I fought a bloody war against the Spanish. They were able to hold their own for some time! (They generally are, in my experience). Cranked out some more horsemen, but throughout all my wars I continued to build cathedrals, universities, etc., when they became availible to me.

Eventually took out Spain, waited until Sistine's was built, and attacked Mongolia. They did have Keshiks, but still, the war was not too difficult. I earned my first GL and built an army.

I am proud to say that all three of these wars were fought almost entirely with Veteran Horsemen. I did not bother with Chivalry.

I triggered my GA in a most unusual way however... having captured the Colossus in Karakorum, I expected my GA to kick in. But it didn't, until a few turns later, when I built Leonardo's Workshop! Doesn't that strike anyone as odd?

The GA was perfectly timed... I now have Sun Tzu's, Sistine's, Bach's, Leo's, Adam Smith's and I'm working on Magellan's and Copernicus'.

Oh, and did I also mention I have Korea, Spain and Mongolia? Thank you little horsies!

But now, to make the full use of India's commercial trait, I would like to expand OVERSEAS. The question is, should I do it now, or wait? To help me answer that question, please see my new thread, "Overseas Conquests in the Middle Ages," which I am going to go begin right now.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

In case you don't want to mosey over to the new thread, here's a current saved game. What do you think I should do now, bearing in mind that my meglomaniacal goal is to annex Babylon, Arabia and the Ottomans?

[Nor Me]

I suppose I should leave the other thread to discuss intercontinental invasions.

Can I just ask why the Musketmen?

Even if you need three in every city, upgrading spears and pikes with your cash would be more sensible than building more.

Now you've got so many marketplaces, even warmongering would be better in Republic if you were prepared to defend your core mostly with mobile units.

You'd be safer having more War Elphants which will become Cavalry in 4 turns which can deal with enemy units 9 tiles away in your territory and anywhere fairly soon with rails.

The ones on the Chinese border are useful but the others?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Yes, yes, I have too many Musketmen... I was building them to fill my Mongol cities with troops, for policing, not for defense, as I assume I will continue under Monarchy for some time. Republic never really works out for me. I could see Democracy, but I was thinking of doing that more after I take out Babylon. I guess I could do it either way, I've got a lot of happiness improvements under my belt.

To be frank, I wasn't paying that much attention... I was just building them out of lack of anything better to build, and I was going to switch to cavalry. I suppose pre-building War Elephants makes a lot more sense though. I have a cold, too, which is affecting my judgment.

Still, please, can you help me to plan my invasion? How should I do it? How many ships should I build and what should I fill them with? Where should I land?

Spank you very much,
YHWH

[Arrian]

Congrats, Yahweh, it sounds like things are going well.

3 muskets in each city Too many, but Nor Me was all over that already.

Wanna know what happened with your GA? Here's how it works:

Whenever you complete a wonder, the game checks to see which wonders you control. If you have a wonder or wonder combination that satisfies your civ traits, you will enter a GA. So, upon completing Leonardo's, the computer checked and found the Colossus, and triggered your GA.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Ah, I see.

Well, let's hope I get that other continent under my control.

As for the musketmen... well, I'll disband them when I finally enter democracy, and I'm not sure how late that'll be. I like the policing ability, and I like a low war weariness level, so I'll stay in Monarchy most likely until my conquests are done and my palace is relocated, courtesy of a GL, to Mecca or some such city.