Success, the Indians and You

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Hmmm, yes, that's not so bad, especially if you've got MapMaking by that point... not necessary either, I suppose.

[Theseus]

Don;t forget that commercial helps with NOC corruption as well... I'd go for a 3-tile spaced empire, or even better yet I'd ralph.

I'd go with Writing in a big way... opens up the extortion floodgates.

Barracks are a must, unless you have a convenient and protected barb farming zone.

Lastly, really polish up your early game... as always, cracker's thread on CFC is a must. If you can get to feudalism and beyond with a good position, India (and Carthage and France) really shines.

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Yes, I've been a big fan of commercial empires in the past... but with India, I've had difficulty getting to the acceptable route (mid-sized by feudalism, with a tech LEAD, however slight, not tech parity...)

Also, forgive my ignorance, but where is Cracker's thread, and what does CFC refer to?

[Arrian]

Civilization Fanatics Center - another Civ site. Check it out.

I fired up a couple of games as India last night to just try them out again, and they really are slow starters... my aggressive opening just doesn't work very well with them. I think they have to build up for a while before busting out.

-Arrian

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
I fired up a couple of games as India last night to just try them out again, and they really are slow starters... my aggressive opening just doesn't work very well with them. I think they have to build up for a while before busting out.

Oh yes, CFC, I am fond of the site actually.

So, how would you recommend building up before the busting out? That's where I'm stuck. Especially since Korea (a frequent neighbor) seems so good at doing the same thing... and the Mongols seem likely to just "trade away the world," erasing any tech edge you might get.

On the other hand, I haven't tried the writing-first route yet (haven't played all week). Perhaps that will yield better results in terms of keeping up with the Joneses than would the mysiticism-polytheism route...

[Arrian]

I guess you could try going for the Great Library (while trading for or researching some military stuff... at least BW & the Wheel) while REXing and building a few barracks here and there. Then build Horsemen. Lots of 'em. Beeline for Leo's. Make damn sure you get it. Upgrade a ****load of horsemen to War Elephants.

Kill.

-Arrian

p.s. Or, perhaps you could try playing peacefully... since India is set up to be a peaceful type civ. But that doesn't really occur to me anymore...

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Originally posted by Arrian
p.s. Or, perhaps you could try playing peacefully... since India is set up to be a peaceful type civ. But that doesn't really occur to me anymore...

Were I playing against fewer civs, this is probably the approach I'd take. But yes, against 16 civs, I don't think peaceful is really an option. I think commercial translates more to "huge" empire than "trading" empire, although it's handy for both.

[Konquest02]

Attention all you Indians players...
MZO has created a series of comparison games called The Boot Camp. The first game is played as the Indians on Monarch. Come try your strategies!

http://central.masterzen.net/index.php?act=ST&f=62&t=379

--Kon--

[UnOrthOdOx]

Speaking of...get the spoiler thread up already, I have my victory ready to submit.

IF YOU ARE PLAYING THE ABOVE GAME, POSSIBLE SPOILERS LAY AHEAD

Consider yourself warned.

[UnOrthOdOx]

This was a standard size map on Monarch, but only 8 opponents. And, I am not saying this is the smartest way to play them either.

I really had allot of success in VERY aggressive REXing followed up by culture bombing. I moved the capitol around a few times, eventually ending up back home, just to aid in the culture bomb, and it was as effective, if not as quick, as an early archer rush and left me in a position where nearly anything was possible at one point there. I could have conquered, I could have played nice...

[editted just in case you guys decide to try it out]

[UnOrthOdOx]

I do think you are best to avoid the archer rush, and go sword rush if the map allows, otherwise prepare for knights. Not bad timing for a GA either.

[Arrian]

I guess you could try going for the Great Library (while trading for or researching some military stuff... at least BW & the Wheel) while REXing and building a few barracks here and there. Then build Horsemen. Lots of 'em. Beeline for Leo's. Make damn sure you get it. Upgrade a ****load of horsemen to War Elephants.

Kill.

-Arrian

Well, I started another Indian game and followed my advice. Monarch, standard across the board. I ended up on a 6-civ continent (me, Zulu, Japan, Persia, China, Carthage).

It worked. I got a nice starting spot - though being coastal it wasn't gonna be good long-term. I built a granary & REXed like mad, caving into a demand or two to avoid attack. Luckily for me, the Japanese & Zulu (my Eastern & Northern neighbors, respectively) decided to fight a loooooooong war throughout the ancient age. That left me to build up. I managed to culture flip a Persian city (Persia is my SE neighbor) that controls a bunch of dyes, then my 3rd luxury.

I built the FP one city east of my capitol, and have every intention of moving the palace at some point. I nabbed the GL. Meanwhile, when I had enough horsies & swords, I took out Japan and grabbed some nice land, as well as ivory (lux #4).

Build up, build up, build up. Persia was really giving me a run for my money in the tech race, routinely popping ahead of me here and there. But then I completed Adam Smith's. *BLAM* Golden Age (I also got the Sistine, Leo's, Bachs, Copernicus, and am poised to grab Magellan & Newton). I turned some of my 39 War Elephants on pitiful Zululand and have just about crushed them (2 turns of war, 3 cities captured, 3 cities to go). I will be gaining furs, luxury #5. 2 turns until Military Tradition. Believe me, I didn't want to go to bed.

Persopolis has the Pyramids, Sun Tzu & the Hanging Gardens. Think I want it? Oh, just a bit. Persia's land is beautiful. It will make an excellent 2nd core.

Oh, and the other 2 civs in the game? Spain & Azteca. They're weak, and give me luxuries for tech. They can live. For now.

-Arrian

[dexters]

Arrian, I've been following a lot of your posts and I particularly enjoy your description of your games. Do you have a chronicles webpage somewhere?

[Yahweh Sabaoth]

Well, sounds like Arrian's on point, but little Regent boy here just got his butt whupped again this morning. Well, not exactly... just didn't achieve UP, that's all. However, I did learn a few things... (I've also been on a Civ hiatus for over a week, so I'm a bit behind)

Who's India's most dreaded neighbor?

IMHO, Japan. Of course, that depends on the hand Japan is dealt, but in general, no other civ will counteract India's cultural growth like Japan will, while simultaneously building plenty of ground troops and making lots of demands. I have yet to learn the fine art of giving into demands selectively, so often I end up at war with the Japanese too early to make it out big. The Japanese seem pretty levelheaded in terms of realizing when you've over-REXed and it's time for them to attack weak frontier towns that might be connected to your only horsies, iron, etc.

Who's India's most irritating neighbor?

Once again, it depends, but I'd say the Mongols. Often they're just pathetic, but about half the time I'd say they end up with a grotesque tech lead which they're fond of trading away - except to India.

Korea is also quite irritating, as they are good at developing infrastructure, keeping up with tech, REXing and defending themselves - even attacking occassionally.

What should India research first?

Without question (in my mind), WRITING. Good lord. What a difference a tech makes. Compared to the Mysticism-Polytheism route I was following, writing is pure gold. Trade it away for basically any tech you need, and go for Mys.-Poly. next. You'll be a trading master and "keep up with the Joneses" nicely.

Should the Indian player play an "Asia only" game?

NO! At least, not IMO. The Asians for some reason seem to fall far behind in tech and culture, losing out to the overseas. Sure, India can come to dominate Asia, but it'll be far behind the other continents. India often starts with only the Mongols, Japanese, Koreans and Chinese as neighbors. As far as I can tell, it behooves the Indian player to restart and play on the largest continent, as India stands poised to gain from trading... especially if one follows the writing route.

As for as conquest goes, I'm still experimenting, but I'd say that it's worth waging at least one ancient war. India seems to often start with beautiful REXing land, but despite my best efforts, I often get out-REXed, or at least equally REXed, by my neighbors (and no, please don't redirect me to some "how to REX" thread, I've read 99% of 'em).

[UnOrthOdOx]

Ive put up my AAR on the MZO game. Played out much similar to Arrian's, though I stayed peacefull throughout (I had never played builder before, and was just messing around, and made many a mistake). There definately was a point where there could have been a nice build-up and conquering. If you're not going to play the MZO game (Monarch, continents, 8 civs), you can have a read here:

http://central.masterzen.net/index.php?act=ST&f=62&t=389