Should I make Guerrillas 8/8/1?

[Master Zen]

Hola,

I was wondering if it would not be too unstable to give Guerrillas 8/8/1, hidden nationality and treat all terrain as roads. Perhaps those attack/defense values are too much? I think 6 is pretty measly, considering the Guerrilla should be usefull throught the rest of the game but giving them hidden nationality (thats the fun part!) will make them too powerful...

I also make Marines 12/8/1 and Paratroopers 8/10/1 both with a airdrop range of 8 (marines through helicopters of course) on a huge map.

[Underseer]

The li'l buggers can already be built without any strategic resources. How much more advantage do they need?

[Master Zen]

Well, considering Riflemen are 4/6 and they can be built without resources, making guerrillas 6/6 wouln't by itself be much of a difference.

[Zero]

Guerillas whole purpose is an alternative for resource stricken civs and ways to solve outdated units to still be of importance in industrial era. People who think guerillas should be any more than that is totally unblanacing this fact that firaxis had in mind.

[Jaguar]

Guerillas should be later on the tech tree. I made Infantry upgrade to Balou's Modern Infantry (available at Civfanatics) and I made Guerillas Modern Infantry replacements for resource-weak civs. The animation does have an automatic, after all. The infantry graphic doesn't, so hence the guerilla should be farther along the tech tree.

[Mad Bomber]

I agree with Calc, I just finished a game with Guerillas as 8.8.1 + all terrain as roads, and the little buggers were just too powerful for thie intended role, I built them instead of Cavalry. I think that a 6.8.1 is an appropriate rating. In my defense I had modded the guerilla before realizing that the guerilla; in addition to needing no resources, also does not require support either, making it a viable alternative to other foot units

[wilbill]

Originally posted by Calc II
Guerillas whole purpose is an alternative for resource stricken civs and ways to solve outdated units to still be of importance in industrial era. People who think guerillas should be any more than that is totally unblanacing this fact that firaxis had in mind.

I agree, too. They serve a perfectly good purpose as-is (ever been caught without the resources to build infantry?). The issue may be in the name - Light Infantry might be more appropriate. If they actually were to be used as guerillas, 4-3-2 would probably be more accurate, with hidden nationality. Of course since the AI's are drawn to hidden nationality units like magnets, they'd end up being about as useful as "land privateers".

[CerberusIV]

I keep them at 6.6.1 because they are not really there to take on the better military units (I make both paratroops and marines 8.8.1) The only change that is useful is to give guerillas all terrain as roads. The AI then uses them to raid your border and newly captured territory so you are forced to guard workers and pick off these infiltrators so it gives the AI a chance to divert some of your attacking forces.

I do find the animation hilarious when a guerilla tries to bayonet a MA

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
I keep them at 6.6.1 because they are not really there to take on the better military units (I make both paratroops and marines 8.8.1) The only change that is useful is to give guerillas all terrain as roads. The AI then uses them to raid your border and newly captured territory so you are forced to guard workers and pick off these infiltrators so it gives the AI a chance to divert some of your attacking forces.

I do find the animation hilarious when a guerilla tries to bayonet a MA

Giving it ATAR allows the Guerilla better movement than cavalry which makes it two powerful, i suggest move=2, ignore rough terrain if you want to make them more mobile than regular foot units.

[Sisawat]

I modded my guerillas 6.6.2 ignore terrain restrictions, invisible, colorless.

Three AI countries bought the farm at the hands of their neighbors in undeclared wars consisting entirely of guerilla actions. (which, admittedly, was really cool, and sorta the intended effect: constant low-level undeclared war)

Its a fun game, but I think next time I either won't make them invisible, reinstate terrain restrictions, or bump them somewhere else on the tech tree further down.

[Master Zen]

possible solution is to get a new infantry unit in the modern age.

There's an excellent Modern Infantry found in the Civfanatics download section, check it out.

[Sisawat]

That's part of the plan, as well as several other colorless 'partisan' units. The problem in this last game was that most of the neighboring countries lacked enough rubber to defend themselves properly. Regular Infantry was adequate, and I have defended one wall-less city against hundreds of attacking guerilla units with four infantry and two artillery.

[Master Zen]

Regardless of what was Firaxis's intended role (frankly I cannot consider Firaxis' vanilla stats as an unbreakable law - just look at how they gave us the Cruise Missle) Guerrillas should have certain advantages:

They are usually knowledgable about terrain, so they should have a major movement advantage, more than cavalry since cavalry only moves fast in flat terrain, not in mountains or jungle or forest. That is why I give them all terrain as roads.

Cavalry is available since the middle ages, so franky I see no reason why Guerrillas should be any weaker since they are a newer unit. Unlike cavalry, guerrillas have pased the test of time and are widely used today. That's why I proposed 8/8 and at the same time gave Marines 12/8 and Paras 8/10.

Guerrillas are sometimes backed and funded by another power, for this reason I proposed the hidden nationality so as to exert your power this way. However, it seems that this makes the AI wage unrelentless war with guerrillas quite unrealisticaly.

If Firaxis intended the Guerrilla to replace the Rifleman for resource-starved civs, then why only give them 6/6? There is no defensive advantage to upgrading and thus renders the units useless besides the fact they need no support.

Mad Bomber propoposed 6/8/1. Sounds reasonable.

[Sisawat]

Trust me, bump them further down the tech tree or they will rampage all over the map. The invisibility makes a big difference. Any nation that hasn't got any rubber or hasn't upgraded their units will be swiftly overrun by other AI; It seems that the colorless units cause AIs at peace to ignore the threat.

[Master Zen]

Hadn't noticed Jaguar Warrior mentioned the Modern Infantry before...

cool unit ain't it?

I usually make it upgradable from the regular Infantry as the default draft unit of the modern age. After all, I didn't know IFV's came with each draftee in real life...