Should I make Guerrillas 8/8/1?

[Panag]

Re: Should I make Guerrillas 8/8/1?

Originally posted by raguil_79
Hola,

I was wondering if it would not be too unstable to give Guerrillas 8/8/1, hidden nationality and treat all terrain as roads. Perhaps those attack/defense values are too much? I think 6 is pretty measly, considering the Guerrilla should be usefull throught the rest of the game but giving them hidden nationality (thats the fun part!) will make them too powerful...

I also make Marines 12/8/1 and Paratroopers 8/10/1 both with a airdrop range of 8 (marines through helicopters of course) on a huge map.

hi ,

, its very high , 4/4/1 would be better , you have to take in account the all the other units in the game and the price , note also that the price is different depending on the level , ....

have a nice day

[planetfall]

For a more even unit, give guerilla 80:5.2.2 no terrain penalty for: hill/mt/jungle

Why?

If cost == 90 ++, AI builds too many instead of infantry.

Off == 5. If 6, sometimes have same problems of AI building armies of guerillas. 6 would make sense, but AI overvalues and over creates guerillas at the expense of infantry. AI's with armies of guerillas are way too weak.

Def == 2. Sounds super weak, but like the paratrooper and marines, the defense values of these modern units seem to be tweaked in actual combat situations. Besides guerillas are great for offense, not defense. Their defense is slipping away.

Move==2. All terrain as roads makes them light calvary. No way a foot unit can move as fast or as far as a unit on horse. Now if you changed the graphic and made these modern cavs on harleys, that would indeed make sense. To support slipping away, removed terrain restrictions of hills/mts/etc.

How does it play? AI with rubber will build about 1 guerrilla to 5 infantry. This seems to be about the right build percentage.

Oh, another option now relooking at costs, would be to keep cost of guerilla at 90, but bump infantry to 100 so AI builds more infantry than guerilla.

Also, the AI does NOT use the 2 moves to strike in move 1 and escape in move 2. I have yet to see any escape moves. For a human player this is a big advantage. Hit, run and the AI has to search for you.

Oh, also changed so guerrilla is invisible. Only visible to: other guerillas, infantry, mechs. This does help keep streams of MA running thru land without foot units.

Not fully satisfied with these guerilla values, they are quite good but don't yet have a feeling they are ideal. Open to alternative suggestions. Maybe rifleman is too costly at 80, etc.

== PF

[Sisawat]

Also, the AI does NOT use the 2 moves to strike in move 1 and escape in move 2. I have yet to see any escape moves. For a human player this is a big advantage. Hit, run and the AI has to search for you.

Oh, it most certainly does in my games. While I agree with you comments about the attack and defend values so that the AI builds less, it definately was using the retreat againt a city of mine, sending a stack of at least fifteen at a time to attack and then promptly retreat back to an AI city.

[Mad Bomber]

Originally posted by planetfall
For a more even unit, give guerilla 80:5.2.2 no terrain penalty for: hill/mt/jungle

Why?

If cost == 90 ++, AI builds too many instead of infantry.

Off == 5. If 6, sometimes have same problems of AI building armies of guerillas. 6 would make sense, but AI overvalues and over creates guerillas at the expense of infantry. AI's with armies of guerillas are way too weak.

Def == 2. Sounds super weak, but like the paratrooper and marines, the defense values of these modern units seem to be tweaked in actual combat situations. Besides guerillas are great for offense, not defense. Their defense is slipping away.

Move==2. All terrain as roads makes them light calvary. No way a foot unit can move as fast or as far as a unit on horse. Now if you
changed the graphic and made these modern cavs on harleys, that would indeed make sense. To support slipping away, removed terrain restrictions of hills/mts/etc.

How does it play? AI with rubber will build about 1 guerrilla to 5 infantry. This seems to be about the right build percentage.

Oh, another option now relooking at costs, would be to keep cost of guerilla at 90, but bump infantry to 100 so AI builds more infantry than guerilla.

Also, the AI does NOT use the 2 moves to strike in move 1 and escape in move 2. I have yet to see any escape moves. For a human player this is a big advantage. Hit, run and the AI has to search for you.

Oh, also changed so guerrilla is invisible. Only visible to: other guerillas, infantry, mechs. This does help keep streams of MA running thru land without foot units.

Not fully satisfied with these guerilla values, they are quite good but don't yet have a feeling they are ideal. Open to alternative suggestions. Maybe rifleman is too costly at 80, etc.

== PF

My 6.8.2 mod I have recently used (cost=80, ignore rough) with good results. The units are weaker at attack and defense than regular infantry, they are cheaper, require no support, and will attack, retreat if the option presents itself. As for the building by AI's this seems to be in PF's range of 5:1 ratio of infantry to Guerilla (actual ratio is appox 100:15 but you do the math)

I like the Guerilla as I have it in my mod, I should note that they are not colorless this would be an exploit IMO and lead to ceaseless wars. One minor tweak that I think I will add is to give them the radar ability so that they know more of their surroundings.

Note: The invisible trait does not mean that they cannot be attacked. I gave the invisible ability to the guerilla, and my tanks started attacking them, but it was like they were attacking empty air, decidedly unpleasant was that experience.

[steven8r]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
I do find the animation hilarious when a guerilla tries to bayonet a MA

Yes, but I've seen a stack of about 3 of them stab an MA to death. But the victor doesn't usuallly last long the next turn.

[Sisawat]

I should note that they are not colorless this would be an exploit IMO and lead to ceaseless wars.

It does, and in my case was the intended result, but is something really an exploit if the AI uses the units as intended? Can the AI use exploits, by definition?

[Sinapus]

Originally posted by Sisawat


It does, and in my case was the intended result, but is something really an exploit if the AI uses the units as intended? Can the AI use exploits, by definition?

Dunno, just know the AI keeps nabbing my workers and I can never be too certain who it is w/o going to the F3 screen and checking. OTOH, everytime I make an attack w/guerillas the target civ seems to know I had something to do with it since they get really ticked off at me.

[Sisawat]

Dunno, just know the AI keeps nabbing my workers and I can never be too certain who it is w/o going to the F3 screen and checking.

Yeah, that happens. I just go steal em back, and a few of theirs for good measure. I have armies of two Infantry and one Guerilla whose whole purpose is to hunt insurgents. I'm loving this. BTW: the rest of my base rules are the Apolyton-U mod.

OTOH, everytime I make an attack w/guerillas the target civ seems to know I had something to do with it since they get really ticked off at me.

Now that's different. The AI in my games doesn't seem to know any better than I do whose Guerillas are attacking who.

Next game should be interesting, I'm adding colorless terrorists, Technicals, and Katyusha rocket launchers. And giving them to the barbarians too if it will work.

[Panag]

hi ,

one option to make guerrillas intresting is to hide the identity , but , be warned , place one on a hill somewhere and the AI goes after it , its like with privateers , the AI can see the map and knows where units with hidden identity are , ........

but it works and rocks

small revolts caused by transports filled with guerillas

have a nice day