Units that dont upgrade

[SK138]

I think near the later stages of the game there are just too many units to build that you really wouldn't build anymore like the frigate and the ironclad. I thought maybe making it so the frigate upgrades to a destroyer and an ironclad to a battleship or the other way around. What do you think?

[WarpStorm]

Well, that's what I did in one of my mods (as well as te AU mod). It seems to work fairly well.

[FNBrown]

I did the same thing... I make the Frigate and Ironclads upgradeable to Destroyers.

For that matter, I make Cavalry upgradeable to Tanks.

[Wittlich]

Yes, you can modify the unit upgrades through the editor...but it isn't realistic:

How can a flesh-and-bone horse (Cavalry) upgrade to to a steel encased Tank?

How can a wooden ship/iron based ship upgrade to a steel ship?

I just consider these non-upgradable units as going obsolete and I either use them until they are destroyed or I end up decommissioning them. At least this makes sense.

[player1]

How can a wooden ship/iron based ship upgrade to a steel ship?

Galleon to Transport anyone?
Galley to Caravel?
(also a huge change, since you redesign hull and sails completly)
Infantry to Mech. Infantry?
(you add them brand new motorization)


Frigate to Destroyer example?
(same as Galley to Caravel)
Cavarly to Tank example?
(same as Infantry to Mech. Infantry)

But I would personaly not allow Cavalry to Tank, since losing abilities by upgradeing (movement of 3 to 2) is bad design concept.
And there is question of balance, since that upgrade would cost just 40gp.

[Boracks]

Originally posted by player1


But I would personaly not allow Cavalry to Tank, since losing abilities by upgradeing (movement of 3 to 2) is bad design concept.

But historically accurate for many Canadian and British cavalry regiments. My father was in Lord Strathcona's Horse (Royal Canadians) during WW2 when they converted from horse to tank. And I was in the Fort Garry Horse, a reserve unit, that trained as armour but had a cavalry history, performing the last cavalry charge by a Canadian regiment in 1919.

Given some of the non-historical upgrades allowed, I can't see why this historical one was left out. The cost should reflect this, just like it takes 120 to upgrade a spearman to a rifleman.

My 3.2 cents worth.

[SK138]

I just wanted them to upgrade mainly because I didn't want to have frigates and ironclads available to build when, at the same time, I can build battleships and destroyers instead.

[bigfree1]

Originally posted by Wittlich
Yes, you can modify the unit upgrades through the editor...but it isn't realistic:

How can a flesh-and-bone horse (Cavalry) upgrade to to a steel encased Tank?

How can a wooden ship/iron based ship upgrade to a steel ship?

I just consider these non-upgradable units as going obsolete and I either use them until they are destroyed or I end up decommissioning them. At least this makes sense.

If you want realistic how can ANY unit be upgraded over lengthy periods of time. The Warrior I built in 3600 BC should not be around as a Guerilla in 1980 AD!

The only upgrading we should see(maybe) is from one unit to the next without skipping upgrades of previous units in that line of technology; once a unit is upgraded to it's next highest ability it shouldn't be available for an upgrade. Units should also have a natural attrition rate in which the unit sort of fades and gets turned into shields (for their equipment value)

At least this is my opinion of a more realistic representation of the world.

[SK138]

thats a good idea bigfree but I doubt we'll ever see it in a civ game

[WarpStorm]

Iran had units that were over 2500 years old in RL. Sure the people changed, sure the technology changed, but the units themselves traced their origins from the time of Darius.

[bigfree1]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Iran had units that were over 2500 years old in RL. Sure the people changed, sure the technology changed, but the units themselves traced their origins from the time of Darius.

What are you typing about?

This doesn't even begin to touch on the subject at hand.

If I had a 'rock thrower' unit; should he be around 2500 years from now? Heck, the rocks he throws may not even last that long!

[Tattila the Hun]

It would be nice, if instead of "tank", my unit would be "27th Armored brigade".

[Boracks]

You can rename them. At least, I have an 'abc' icon that says I can rename a unit. Not that I'm bothering with 60+ cavalry running around, mind you.

[Fosse]

What are you typing about? This doesn't even begin to touch on the subject at hand.

Well, he's just trying to give a historical example of a unit existing for millenia... being that a few posts ago people were talking about how units can't exist for millenia...

The idea is that maybe it's silly to imagine a galley eventually turning into a modern transport, but if you look at the gold spent as an investment in new equipment and then imagine that you transfer the command and soldiers curretnly serving in the unit... then it's at least palatable.

Nobody thinks that a rockthrower built in 3500 BC is going to be composed of the same guys in 2000 AD (or 3550 BC!), but the idea is that the civ is continually recruiting and training that UNIT with new members.

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Wittlich


How can a flesh-and-bone horse (Cavalry) upgrade to to a steel encased Tank?

This happenend quite frequently in the US Army.

When Cavalry divisions no longer used horses, they were re-assigned tanks. Many of the Cavalry divisions that were around in the 1800's are still in existance, they just drive tanks instead of ride horses.

The concept of the upgrade is not upgrading the weapon itself, it's training your troops to use an entirely new weapon that does the same job they've always done, only better.

In fact, there are Cavalry divisions these days that use helicopters - although I think the choppers in Civ3 are ill-suited for that purpose.

The point is, when you invent tanks, you don't tell your men who ride horses to pack their saddles and go home. You put the horses out to pasture, and you train the men on how to drive tanks.