Letter of JEFF BRIGGS to the CIV COMMUNITY

[Velociryx]

At the risk of getting yelled at, I humbly point to today's headlines as further evidence that it just might be a smidgeon important that what's on the box resemble what you get when you install.

I further point to the (indirect) evidence that the game store physically located in NZ but selling the game online is doing so in a bit of a sneaky way ("the sign says "coming soon" but they actually have it....just click there and you can order.")

If they have it, and are allowed to sell it normally, then why the hush-hush?

Just a couple observations before retiring again, and if I hear back from the NZ Ministry of Consumer Affairs (you know how government agencies are), I'll post the reply here as well.

-=Vel=-

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by Velociryx
At the risk of getting yelled at, I humbly point to today's headlines as further evidence that it just might be a smidgeon important that what's on the box resemble what you get when you install.

I further point to the (indirect) evidence that the game store physically located in NZ but selling the game online is doing so in a bit of a sneaky way ("the sign says "coming soon" but they actually have it....just click there and you can order.")

If they have it, and are allowed to sell it normally, then why the hush-hush?

Just a couple observations before retiring again, and if I hear back from the NZ Ministry of Consumer Affairs (you know how government agencies are), I'll post the reply here as well.

-=Vel=-

Here's the headline Vel's talking about:

IG ITALY: MISLEADING BOX COVER

(9 December 2002, 15:07 | Civ3) A misleading box cover for the Italian version of Civilization III: Play The World is resulting in scorn being projected onto Infogrames Italy (IG-IT). As Voyager`s Site wrote in and posted about earlier, there are a notable discrepancy and a deception either intentional or unintentional in nature that has resulted in much frustration over compatibility with other PTW language versions.

First, unlike its English and German counterparts, the front of the Italian box cover of PTW does not state Expansion Pack in the yellow stripe bringing to customers` attention that the game`s full version is required to play. Only on the back cover is this information revealed. The System Requirements box does not even mention this either.

Finally, in what has added injury to insult, the Italian PTW version can only be installed with its language namesake of the original Civilization III and not the English version. This is contrary to what is advertised on the box, which states that the Infogrames Italy version of the expansion pack is compatible with the English CivIII variant. IG-IT has not yet publicly responded to these criticisms. - DanQ

This would be laughable if it weren't so sad. Imagine being a parent, knowing little about video games, and buying this for your kid for Christmas. Said child opens and installs the game (without having the prior version of Civ3) and can't play it. What a bummer.

Can't blame Firaxis for this one... international box designs and marketing are clearly well within the realm of Infogrames (I still haven't seen a definition for "Infograme" - feel free to post your suggestions).

IG has a game, nay, a veritable franchise, with hordes of devoted fans who are willing to spend more than reasonable sums of money to support it, and they're basically screwing the proverbial poodle...

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by FNBrown

Can't blame Firaxis for this one... international box designs and marketing are clearly well within the realm of Infogrames (I still haven't seen a definition for "Infograme" - feel free to post your suggestions).

Ok, from Dictionary.com, I think you will like the definition of grame:

1 entry found for grame.
grame

\Grame\, n. [See Gram, a.] 1. Anger; wrath; scorn. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

2. Sorrow; grief; misery. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

[insert joke here]

Originally posted by FNBrown
IG has a game, nay, a veritable franchise, with hordes of devoted fans who are willing to spend more than reasonable sums of money to support it, and they're basically screwing the proverbial poodle...

Is it a wonder why they're being delisted from NASDAQ? How incompetent can one company be? Incorrect boxes (oh, I need the original game in such language? thanks for warning me), incompatible patches abroad. What other screwups can there be? All of this stuff is squarely on their shoulders, as they handle all localizations and marketing. Blah. I feel bad for the firaxians that they have to deal with such chumps.

[FNBrown]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


Ok, from Dictionary.com, I think you will like the definition of grame:

1 entry found for grame.
grame

\Grame\, n. [See Gram, a.] 1. Anger; wrath; scorn. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

2. Sorrow; grief; misery. [Obs.] --Chaucer.

[insert joke here]

I never thought to look up "grame," and I didn't believe it until I looked it up myself.

Here's the definition for "info:"

info

n : a message received and understood that reduces the recipient's uncertainty

So, perhaps we can assume that the definition should read something like:

Infograme

n: a message received and understood that produces certain anger, wrath, and scorn in its recipient.

Sounds dead-on to me.

[Velociryx]

Now THAT is pure gold!

-=Vel=-

[ChaotikVisions]

lol, It all makes sense now.

[asleepathewheel]

I hope that the meaning of Grame is different in French, but even then, they should vet the meaning in English, as that is their largest market.



Just fricking drop the r and it would be ok, but they had to get fancy. All style and no substance I suppose

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Velociryx
I further point to the (indirect) evidence that the game store physically located in NZ but selling the game online is doing so in a bit of a sneaky way ("the sign says "coming soon" but they actually have it....just click there and you can order.")

If they have it, and are allowed to sell it normally, then why the hush-hush?

Even though I am not able to completely rule out the possibility of problems with some ridiculous consumer protection laws (I found exactly zero information on this, despite doing my best to find something), I believe that this has a bit more ordinary reason. The official release date - whatever the reason for pushing it so far - has been set to January 11 (for AU & NZ markets). Any retailer selling the game now must be selling the US or UK version, most probably coming from grey (unauthorized) imports. It is wiser to NOT advertise such thing, as they could easily get into a conflict with Infogrames Australia, possibly losing their reseller status or something...

[Cyclotron]

Well, I was originally dismayed to see this thread rear it's ugly head again... but I think we have all come to a common agreement, and that would be... Infogrames sucks.

Happy now?

[Hagbart]

I'm glad it's not released here yet... what a mess!

[Zero-Tau]

At least we just get the UK version shipped over here. It should work okay.

[WarpStorm]

Originally posted by Hagbart
I'm glad it's not released here yet...

Really? I've been having a whole lot of fun with it for quite a while now.

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by vondrack

Even though I am not able to completely rule out the possibility of problems with some ridiculous consumer protection laws .

Consumer laws are not ridiculous - they protect consumers from the kind of shabby behaviour Infogames has handed out to civ fans ever since they bought the franchise.

Once your economy matures and you throw off the shackles of communist prole "I'll take what I can get" thinking, you will realise the value of consumer laws

[vondrack]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Consumer laws are not ridiculous - they protect consumers from the kind of shabby behaviour Infogames has handed out to civ fans ever since they bought the franchise.

Once your economy matures and you throw off the shackles of communist prole "I'll take what I can get" thinking, you will realise the value of consumer laws

SOME "consumer-protection laws" are VERY ridiculous, believe me. Like the one that suggests translating all the manuals for whatever you sell into the local language (we do have such a law here, even if it is - fortunately - currently interpreted pretty reasonably with respect to software). Just imagine what it means... if your client needs a specialized piece of software worth $20, produced by a US company (i.e. in English)... you get it for him, paying with your VISA online, and then have to hire a translator and have the full docs translated (at the cost of hundreds of dollars). That is just plain RIDICULOUS.

I consider many laws like this stupid, because their sole purpose is to "protect" stupid people from their own stupidity (or inability to realize what they are doing when buying this or that), while in fact they just make things more complicated for normal people.

And for the record, I would consider a law that would make selling software, that includes bugs, illegal RIDICULOUS. Every piece of software contains at least one bug. Thus, software sales would be illegal as a whole.

That's why software is never sold as a "product" (like a refrigerator), but always as a "license" or "permission" (like a library access) to use it AS IS. Just read EULAs, it is always there.

I do hope that the smilie at the end of your post meant you were not serious about the last sentence .

[Panag]

hi ,

it would be nice to know what Sid or firaxis is going to do about infogreed , ......

squize the heck out of them Sid

have a nice day