Why guerrila?

[planetfall]

There seems to be a mismatch between guerrila's description and goal and A.D.M and cost.

Guerrila 6.6.1
Infantry 6.10.1

Cost: same.

Tech required: same

Resource: infantry needs rubber, but guerrila does not.

Description of guerrila says this unit is a balanced off/def unit. Yes it is BUT if have rubber then why build guerrila? Don't think guerrila has an upgrade path whereas inf can go to Mechs.

Like new unit, do not like configuration.

Editor preferences considering for more balanced unit and to force more split between infantry and guerrila units:

Cost:
-1 shield, or
-2 shields

ADM:
7.7.1 -- a little stronger and still balanced
8.8.1 -- infantry offense + defense / 2

What would you recommend for new guerrila preferences? Why?


-- PF

[godinex]

upgrade the guerrilla, it coulb be very useful for all with just more power.

[One_Brow]

I voted "banana" simply because I haven't seen enough to comment on their play balance.

However, as an upgrade for Sword/Med Inf/Longbow, and a resource-free unit, I think Guerillas serve a valuable, if small, niche.

[vmxa1]

One thing you can do is to upgrade Med Inf to guerilla, but not Inf. Otherwise I would not make any.

[ChaotikVisions]

Hmm, giving it more attack doesn't make much sense. I'd rather see it as a 6/8/1 that treats all terrain as roads. I mean guerillas are about fast attacks, right? With 2 movement you've got a fairly fast attacking unit for either that or pillaging, only good in mass attacks with artillery though. Maybe increase the cost by 10 to account for the new ability to it. If it could do that i'd probably use them in sea invasions. Simply because they could help get to citys quicker, keeping up with the attacking units. It'd also be great for annoyance because of its defense. Still no match for tanks or anything though unless in a strong defensive position.

[player1]

Point of Guerilla:

You'll think about them greatly in time when you don't have Rubber.

They are not supposed to be more powerfull then Infantry.

[Nikolai]

I don't know how the guerilla works in PTW, but IMHO, it should work like in Civ2: as a unit that appears when a city is lost. After all, guerillas isn't a defence or offence unit in cities in the real world, but works in the terrain.

[aahz_capone]

er... I didn't vote yet because I think that the treat all terrain as roads makes lots of sence, but keep the other stats the same. Could you redoo the poll, planetfall?

[planetfall]

Originally posted by aahz_capone
er... I didn't vote yet because I think that the treat all terrain as roads makes lots of sence, but keep the other stats the same. Could you redoo the poll, planetfall?

Be nice if could, but editing polls restricted to moderators.

It sounds like most people think the best preference for guerrila is to change to:

6.6.2 all terrain as roads checked

Reasons mentioned:
1. 7|8 is too powerful for offense
2. 7|8 is too powerful for defense
3. movement needs to be increased as guerrilas are not stronger than infantry, just get away faster
4. remember guerrila is upgrade from med inf and longbow.

As I think about it more guerrila's don't have good defense, just quick hit and run. If they can't run, or slide into population they aren't really guerrilas. Thus makes sense to only increase their movement abilities.

-- PF

MODERATOR-- Please add poll option:

"ADM: 6.6.2, all terrain as roads"

[Chuckles]

I think the only point to gorillas is if you don't have rubber. The game is over if you're ever without a rubber. At least with gorillas you have a chance to get some rubbers and maybe survive.

[Zurai]

What I plan to do is make them 9.9.2 ignore movement cost of terrain (NOT all terrain as roads; all terrain as grasslands). 9.9 is because I've boosted the value of all gunpowder+ units in my personal mod; infantry have 9 attack. 2 movement + ignore terrain movement penalties means that guerillas would work wonderfully in jungles and mountains, which mirrors the places we've seen them in real life. In open land though they're no faster than a motorized or mounted unit.

I'm also considering making them free upkeep, but that might make them too good. That will have to be playtested.

[Zurai]

Originally posted by Chuckles
At least with gorillas you have a chance to get some rubbers

Unfortunate phrasing.

[planetfall]

MODERATOR

Amend poll statement to be:

ADM: 6.6.2, all terrain as grasslands

-- PF

Zurai,

I would think you would want guerrilas to have one more movement than infantry to emulate their stealth ability. I don't think the game recognizes stealth in land units. If it does, then 6.6.1 + stealth would work best.

[Ming]

Originally posted by planetfall
MODERATOR-- Please add poll option:
"ADM: 6.6.2, all terrain as roads"

Done... in the future, don't bother posting it in the thread... the odds of us seeing it aren't to high since we usually only check the democracy forums every once in a while, and respond to complaints.

Just send a PM, Email, or do it as a complaint as you did.
That usually will give you the fastest service

[Zurai]

Re: MODERATOR

Originally posted by planetfall
Zurai,

I would think you would want guerrilas to have one more movement than infantry to emulate their stealth ability. I don't think the game recognizes stealth in land units. If it does, then 6.6.1 + stealth would work best.

Stealth is an option as well, but I like 6.6.2(atg), and stealth as well might unbalance them. I don't have PTW yet, so I have no means of testing it. I want them to be useful, but not TOO useful.

EDIT: Just to be clear, "stealth" = invisible unit, not "stealth" as in the stealth planes' ability.