Crashing Multiplayer? - Info on Firewalls, Routers and Proxies

[Arnelos]

I turn off my software firewall and the game STILL crashes when I try to join games...

I suspect that my hardware firewall on the router is at fault (I have both a software firewall AND a hardware firewall).

Man, now I have to look how to get my stupid router to open port 80... hardware is NOT my strong suit...

Out of interest... does anyone have a clue which group of absolute MORONS at Firaxis did not stop to consider that an enormous proportion of their fanbase plays behind routers???

[isak]

@Arnelos:

You definitely need to make sure that all the necessary ports on your Hardware firewall are open. Not just port 80.

Re-read the first post - disabling your software firewall won't work, cause the ports have already been closed.

And if there was a way to program your way around a Router's firewall, I'm sure hackers would be using it right this very minute to gain access to our computers.

Actually, i think there are ways to program your way around a router's firewall, but I'm not really sure I would want Firaxis to use that kind of techniques.

It's a sad fact, you can't be fully protected and have access to everything at the same time We just have to learn to live with it and weigh out the pros and cons..

[sun_tzu_159]

Anyone going on the internet today without a firewall or even two firewalls has a deathwish on there computer. I had a single firewall and was playing a web game on microsoft site and Tiscali (legitimate ISP I think) managed to dump a web-link icon on my desktop which asked me to join them (I don't think I will though).

So I have installed a double firewall which works.

I will not be switching any security off to play internet games.

For example this morning my ports were scanned 16 times by unknown persons from as far away as Australia, one of whom tried to put on my computer Trojan worm HACKA. I pinged back to them but lost the thread in Deutsche Telekom.

The point is that nobody should have to shut down any security to do anything on the internet.

Firaxis have to build an interface that works with firewalls - if microsoft can do it!!!!

If you are blocked on a port it is too late anyway as the port is permanantly closed until you reboot your browser.

Oh yes, and finally. NOT EVERYBODY IS A TECHNO WIZARD. SOME PEOPLE WANT TO LOAD THE GAME AND PLAY WITHOUT FIDDLING ABOUT FOR HOURS WITH SETTINGS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SORTED OUT BEFORE RELEASE.

These problems will alienate the wider gaming public who will just see a game that does not work. The Christmas Turkey?

Hurry up before the reputation of Infogrames and Firaxis is damaged beyond repair.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[isak]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
Firaxis have to build an interface that works with firewalls - if microsoft can do it!!!!

But Microsoft can not - this is from Microsofts support pages: DirectX: Ports Required to Play on a Network

The information in this article applies to:

• Microsoft Age of Empires 1.0
• Microsoft Age of Empires Expansion: The Rise of Rome 1.0
• Microsoft Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings 2.0
• Microsoft Age of Empires II Expansion: The Conquerors
• Microsoft CART Precision Racing 1.0
• Microsoft Close Combat for Windows 1.0
• Microsoft Close Combat: A Bridge Too Far 2.0
• Microsoft Close Combat III: The Russian Front
• Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator: WWII Europe Series 1.0
• Microsoft Combat Flight Simulator 2: WWII Pacific Theater 1.0
• Microsoft Flight Simulator 98
• Microsoft Flight Simulator 2000
• Microsoft Golf 1998 Edition 1.0
• Microsoft Golf 1999 Edition
• Microsoft Golf 2001 Edition
• Microsoft Links LS 2000
• Microsoft Links 2001
• Microsoft MechCommander 2.0 1.0
• Microsoft MechWarrior 4: Vengeance
• Microsoft Midtown Madness 2 2.0
• Microsoft Monster Truck Madness 1.0
• Microsoft Monster Truck Madness 2 2.0
• Microsoft Motocross Madness 1.0
• Microsoft Motocross Madness 2 2.0
• Microsoft StarLancer 1.0
• Microsoft Urban Assault 1.0
• Microsoft Zone.com
• Microsoft Allegiance 1.0

SUMMARY
This article describes the ports required to play Microsoft DirectX multiplayer games through a firewall, a proxy server, a router, Network Address Translation (NAT), or Intenet Connection Sharing (ICS).

MORE INFORMATION
To verify that these ports are open or to open these ports, please contact your network administrator or Internet service provider (ISP).

If you are the administrator of the network, please consult the documentation provided with your networking software to determine the steps to open these ports.

To play DirectX games through a network firewall or proxy server, the following requirements must be met:
To ensure DirectPlay compatibility, the latest version of DirectX should be installed on the computers used by all players who participate in the game.


The following TCP and UDP ports must be open on the firewall or proxy server:

Initial TCP Connection - 47624 Outbound - 47624 Inbound
Subsequent TCP - Inbound 2300-2400 - 2300-2400
Subsequent TCP - Outbound 2300-2400 - 2300-2400
Subsequent UDP - Inbound 2300-2400 - 2300-2400
Subsequent UDP - Outbound 2300-2400 - 2300-2400

So you need to set up your router with MS games too - just like with any other game.

Oh yes, and finally. NOT EVERYBODY IS A TECHNO WIZARD. SOME PEOPLE WANT TO LOAD THE GAME AND PLAY WITHOUT FIDDLING ABOUT FOR HOURS WITH SETTINGS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN SORTED OUT BEFORE RELEASE.

I know! - so do Firaxis, so does every other game developer - but there is nothing to do about it. A Firewall is created to block in- and outgoing traffic of any kind on potentially any port. To set up a multiplayer game, computers need to be able to communicate - they can't do that if all ports are closed - end of story.

I'm not a Techno Wizard myself, but I do know that the only real solution to the problem is that we all start realizing that the PC will never be a computer you can turn on like the television and then "there's Oprah, no sweat".
It's a highly sophisticated, higly customizable tool, and there's just no way it will ever be possible to make this tool much easier to use, unless we also cut down on the sophistication and customizability. If people want easy to use game-cubes, get an X-Box or a PS2. If you want a computer that can virtually let you do anything, accept the fact that you won't know it all in one day - and remember there are lots more like you (myself included) who are having problems, and fortunately also a lot of people who don't mind helping out.

I understand your frustration - been there myself many times, but blaming the computer industry isn't really telling the whole truth IMHO.

So let's keep the thread cleer of the "I hate Firaxis" statements and the like, and instead accept the above and the fact that even if it looks like it's the game that's crashing, it may actually be you who isn't using the 'tool' properly. I know I scr*w up lots of times....

[RickJay]

Isak, it's certianly true that PCs will always have problems and you can't be secure and transparently connected at the same time. But I'm not behind a firewall and PTW doesn't work worth a damn.

Look at it this way:

- Age of Empires on my PC works great in MP. I never had to change a single thing.
- Empire Earth works great in MP.
- Europa Universalis works great in MP.
- Mechwarrior 4 works great in MP.
- EverQuest works great in MMP.
- F1 2002 works great in MP.
- Total Annihilation, a 5-year-old game, works great in MP.
- Diablo II works great in MP.
- Warcraft III works great in MP.

Play The World doesn't work at all in MP.

Now, when dozens and dozens of games' multiplayer modes work just great on my computer and, it seems, most clean, modern PCs, and Play the World DOESN'T work worth a damn on most machines, it's pretty obvious that the problem is in PTW, not our computers. It's silly to suggest this is somehow not Firaxis's problem; of course it is. I've played most every MP game under the sun and never once, not ever, have I had to worry about what ports are open. The VAST majority of games work fine in MP, with no more than an odd hiccup. Now PTW doesn't work to any degree of reliability, and it's suggested the ports matter. Where's the problem here - with the one game I've bought where MP doesn't work at all, or the computer than runs every other MP game just fine?

Why is it Paradox's games work great in MP? Blizzard's run just fine. Microsoft's run just dandy. But Friaxis's big new MP game is a dog. One of these things is not like the others.

[isak]

I'm not here to say that PtW is bugfree - i'm here to say that a lot of problems are caused by closed ports or similar. My intention was to let anybody, who repeatedly suffered crashes, often even before getting into the game, know that they were most likely behind some sort of firewall.

If you want to discuss the the Computer game business, software companies, programming routines etc., please open a thread in the relevant forum.

I'd be happy to discuss it with you there.

[sun_tzu_159]

Thankyou Rickjay and isak for vigorous replies.

I am not doing an 'I hate Firaxis' thread, I am stating the word on the street. If Firaxis does not listen then this multiplayer game will die through lack of support from all but a loyal fan base and no new people will be recruited. If it is released for christmas sales and the average punter gets home and it doesn't work on MP the reputation of the publisher and developer is damaged for-ever.

This is a brilliant game that Firaxis has and to lose it through not being able to cater for a firewall and router is silly.

Microsoft games work across a wide range of ports - PTW does not. It is highly restrictive to severely limit the number of ports available. Remember that all internet links go through many servers, routers, firewalls, and even satellites probably. To use a commonly blocked port by the ISP is foolish.

When I said 'Microsoft can do it' I am referring to the new XBOX live service which is run through a secure server by Microsoft. Surely computers are cheap enough for somebody at Firaxis/Infogrames to do the same. They don't have to buy the thing - just rent it.

On the positive side/advice side. Have people having problems tried

a) turning off ad-blocking on some common PC firewalls these automatically accumulate rules to block cookies, referrers, certain pane sizes and many other things which eventually make the feature close to useless anyway.

b) Within explorer programs switching off the cookies privacy feature under the privacy tab in internet explorer. This action can sometimes work a treat.

c) Check that you have supervisor access to your PC if you have one of the more recent OS such as XP as certain priveleges may be blocked as 'user' which disallow game play.

I have six of the games in the list provided by isak and they all work PERFECTLY if the above three things are done.

Look at the competition Firaxis. They can do it. The technology is out there. Call in some top people on multiplayer, the ideas are brilliant with all modes of play available. To rush the multiplayer interface through in the final weeks of development is criminal negligence.

On patches. I know people who play games and do not patch them, are not aware of the existence of patching, are not interested.

I say again it is not worth rushing out a second beta version of a game just because christmas is coming. It is too much risk to the companies reputation. As has been stated on these boards before we are willing to wait the extra weeks if the final product is polished and ready to go. If the word on the street is good the ordinary punter will get involved in the must-have feeling and buy the game later.

There are already too many games released at christmas anyway. November released games for Xbox in UK October <10, November = 30+, December <10. I will only buy about £90.00 of games each month regardless of time of year.

Lesson is

a) Fans like me will buy it anyway.
b) Punters who see bad reviews just before christmas will not buy it.
c) It needs to be top 10 on the shelf 1st week December and it won't be so it is a waste of time rushing it out early.

Regards Sun_Tzu

[notyoueither]

The truth is simple, and in 2 parts. There are 2 things that can give you problems.

1. PTW INet MP is not perfect, and needs to be fixed up to work better. No sweat, they are working on it.

2. MP Inet does work for some people in some circumstances. Who? They are the people who have figured out that their setup needs to be changed a bit. They found out what works. They are playing. They have lag if they play with 8. They have lag if they want to play with people too far away. They crash if they want to play with Warez users from Russia (and NA) running an Alpha.

The lessons are... Play with people close to you. Play in groups of 2 to 4. Do not play with pirates. Firaxis will fix the first 2. The 3rd is a plague that will not be noticed if you play with people you know.

Don't know anyone? Go to the Civ3 MP forum and register in the MP player thread. Get to know some new people.

Hope to see you soon, cause I'm playing.

[sun_tzu_159]

I will be playing soon. also. Hope to see you in a game notyoueither. Though this forum keeps me busy sometimes.

The third thing that gives a problem is choosing port80 for MP. Range of ports required.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[isak]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159

If Firaxis does not listen then this multiplayer game will die through lack of support from all but a loyal fan base and no new people will be recruited.

Firaxis have already stated that they will release a patch very soon.

This is a brilliant game that Firaxis has and to lose it through not being able to cater for a firewall and router is silly.

There is (and I'm saying it for the last time )absolutely no way what so ever to 'cater' for a hardware firewall that is totally closed - it can not be done If the ports are closed, they're closed! The only way to open them is to access the router and open them. There is no magical programming trick that will let you do this, and even if there was, it would be illegal for the game developer to be doing so!

Microsoft games work across a wide range of ports - PTW does not. It is highly restrictive to severely limit the number of ports available. Remember that all internet links go through many servers, routers, firewalls, and even satellites probably. To use a commonly blocked port by the ISP is foolish.

The 'working across a wide range of ports' thing, means that you need to open up a lot more ports for the MS games than you do for games run through Gamespy. The more ports you have open, the less secure your system is.

When I said 'Microsoft can do it' I am referring to the new XBOX live service which is run through a secure server by Microsoft. Surely computers are cheap enough for somebody at Firaxis/Infogrames to do the same. They don't have to buy the thing - just rent it.

Connecting to a secure server would still be a problem if all ports were closed.

On the positive side/advice side. Have people having problems tried

a) turning off ad-blocking on some common PC firewalls these automatically accumulate rules to block cookies, referrers, certain pane sizes and many other things which eventually make the feature close to useless anyway.

b) Within explorer programs switching off the cookies privacy feature under the privacy tab in internet explorer. This action can sometimes work a treat.

c) Check that you have supervisor access to your PC if you have one of the more recent OS such as XP as certain priveleges may be blocked as 'user' which disallow game play.

These are definitely good tips, yes. Again, less secure means easier access to internet gaming.

I have six of the games in the list provided by isak and they all work PERFECTLY if the above three things are done.

Only if the ports they need open are already open.

On patches. I know people who play games and do not patch them, are not aware of the existence of patching, are not interested.

You should tell them about patches - people need to get smarter when using their computers. Are they not patching Windows and Internet Explorer either? Cause then they'll certainly be easy prey for hackers.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159
I will be playing soon. also. Hope to see you in a game notyoueither. Though this forum keeps me busy sometimes.

The third thing that gives a problem is choosing port80 for MP. Range of ports required.

Hope to see you too. And yes, Poly is a big black hole for free time. Trust me on that.

As for the ports... I heard they were GameSpy requirements. Now apparently, Firaxis and GameSpy were not entirely on the same page. Not surprising given that Firaxis in not known as an MP powerhouse in the gaming industry. They are working on it, and I trust they can learn quick.

I think some are in a worse boat. Some people's ISPs block port 80. Hopefully this can be worked around and fudged so that more people may play. Maybe that is where direct IP begins to come in...

[elcapjtk]

An ISP can't block port 80!

Port 80 is used by HTTP, so if it was blocked, you couldn't get to webpages without a proxy server to redirect the traffic to a different port.

[Swissy]

Originally posted by elcapjtk
An ISP can't block port 80!

Port 80 is used by HTTP, so if it was blocked, you couldn't get to webpages without a proxy server to redirect the traffic to a different port.

They block inbound port 80; you can surf out, but nobody can surf into your webserver. Webservers listen on port 80, so the ISP blocks it so no unauthorized (not on a commercial account) webservers run on their system.

[Promethus]

Best Port Scanner I have found.

Go to www.grc.com and run the ShieldsUP! program.

[notyoueither]

Apparently, most of the port 80 requirement is for running GameSpy arcade. Someone mentioned to me that they were watching activity and the only time port 80 was used was when firing up GameSpy. I do know that Arcade causes ZoneAlarm to ask if GS can be a server. I hope I got that right.