Stop B****ing about PTW

[Wise Ass]

Originally posted by [FX]Roman


Yea, but they didn't deliver a game that met expectations, so lets flame on. Theres a simple code that goes with this. If the game isn't good, then flame it, simple enough?

Not really. You see, Apolyton is the largest information source for Civ games. About 1/3 of the people who will or won't buy Civ3 PTW are affected by comments on this board directly (read the comments themselves) or indirectly (got a recomendation from someone who read all the flames).

So with the abilty that the Apolyton community has in encouraging or discouraging the buying of games, by flaming the games on the boards instead of in Firaxis's Tech support, you are lessening your chances on Patches and future expansions.

Even if my little guess on affected people is off (which I doubt it is too far from reality), Firaxis staff still reads this board, and after all the complaining done, there is no way Firaxis is going to give support for future support to a bunch of whiners.

I admit, that Firaxis is very much in the wrong (actually I would put more blame on Infogrames), but they have been one of the best companies about support. When you get a patch more than six months after a game is released you are dealing with one hell of a company.

Roman: Be patient, see what Firaxis does!

Strakorfsky: Maybe it is your English but you are not very good at persuasive speaking, and your ideas on Ethics and the Gaming Industry are a little coocoo.

Ausie Lurker: I wish

[notyoueither]

Trip,

Then meet me at 9 in the lobby and I'll try to help you get it going.

There was one tester who never could get into Internet MP. We never figured out what it was about his system.

Let's hope you are not in the same boat.

[Strakorfsky]

wiseass, your opinion is respected, but making judgements based on a thread is very underlining of amoral bases.

in the future, keep your personal antaginism to yourself, people will respect you more

[Hurin]

Strak,

Until you have installed the game and come to the same conclusion that the vast majority of us have (that it is wholly un-playable and non-functional), I suggest you keep your little comments to yourself.

Man, now I know how I must have sounded back when I was defending Ultima Online. Except, in my mind, OSI had the excuse of trying something that had never been done before.

I can accept a buggy release. But, try to understand. . . it's not buggy, it's non-fuctional.

You can sit there and be all warm and fuzzy as much as you want. It's easy to be patient when you don't yet own the game. But, some of us were very excited to play it, hence our buying it early.

Now, normally, I'd say: "That's you're mistake for not having patience, buddy. Just live with the bugs until they improve it."

Hell, I bought Civ3 on the release date. When it sucked in Windows 2000 (because of the slow-scroll bug), I actually formatted my machine and put on Win98. I didn't complain, as long as I could get it to run. I quietly endured all the bugs, because the game ran, and was enjoyable.

But, here's the point. PTW is not just buggy. . . it's not just annoying. . . it **DOESN'T WORK**.

As for beta testers. We had a ton of 'em for Ultima Online. I was one of them. We reported the bugs. OSI acknowledged them, and then shipped the game anyways.

Sometimes, that's the way it works. It's a descpicable business practice that provides short-term financial gain. . . but it eventually cost OSI its reputation. If Firaxis keeps doing it, they won't be far behind.

So, uh, why don't you stop blowing sunshine up everyone's rears. When a company releases software in this state, they *deserve* to be lambasted. It's odd for me to hear myself saying that after so many years of being pro-developer, but this time it's that bad.

This isn't 1997 anymore. I remember when CivNet first came out and it was laggy, and crashed, and we all just gritted our teeth and beared it. But, this is 2002. Look at all the Multiplayer games that are out there now that find players, match them up, and go off without a hitch (AOE series, Warcraft III, all the FPS games).

Sheesh. . . I guess we're not allowed to voice any displeasure here over the shipping of a non-functional game without being called whiners.

As for "LAN, hotseat, and everything but internet play working fine so we should all just settle down". . . I have to believe that the vast majority of us bought this to play it over the internet. Please don't try to tell me that this wasn't its largest selling point.

As for Warez users. . . I've tried three different machines and tried to play with 10 different players (none of which admitted to using cracked copies. . . and I'm sure my brother wasn't). . . no go.

So, I don't think it's unfair to be a little pissed. You don't like it, don't read it.

H

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Hurin
Strak,

Until you have installed the game and come to the same conclusion that the vast majority of us have (that it is wholly un-playable and non-functional), I suggest you keep your little comments to yourself.

I can accept a buggy release. But, try to understand. . . it's not buggy, it's non-fuctional.

Huh

What was I playing a little while ago? Must have been my imagination.

[Wise Ass]

Strak,

Sorry that came off a little harsh I should have re read it. My comment was more so based on one of yours:

the complexities of multi-palyer on games like civ3 ptw are astounding considering programmers have to include lag, diual ups, time taken for host comp to realize commands, sheesh.

That is what they get paid to do. Estimating that Firaxis sold a million copies of Civ3 (meaning that Firaxis saw at least 6-7 mil) minus about 2 million on game development that means that the profited probably at least 4 million. Firaxis is by no means a struggling company. They have a talented team, a few highly regarded franchises, and Sid Meier, they should be able to do it right the first time.

I can gaurantee that you will not hear one Firaxian say that "we wanted to do it right but that programming stuff is kinda tricky".

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Hurin
But, here's the point. PTW is not just buggy. . . it's not just annoying. . . it **DOESN'T WORK**.

...

Sheesh. . . I guess we're not allowed to voice any displeasure here over the shipping of a non-functional game without being called whiners.

...

So, I don't think it's unfair to be a little pissed. You don't like it, don't read it.

Incorrect. You have not been able to make it work. I have. Every tester on the beta team save 1 was able to make it work.

You might be whining if you insist on flaming based on your initial impressions instead of trying to find out what it is about your set up and those of your opponents that is preventing you from playing.

Frustrated? I can understand that. However, you and others repeating over and over that it doesn't work, when in fact it does, or can be made to, is maybe frustrating for some of the users of this forum. It's also misleading to those who haven't tried yet.

[asleepathewheel]

NYE:

The first time I loaded up MP, it worked. Am I just lucky? I disabled firewall and norton. Found one person, and went to work.

didn't seem very complicated to me.

granted I was playing against one person and one person and 2 ai's in the two games.

I expected some kinks, anything on this scale I would expect kinks, and there were some: when certain people tried to join our game, they locked it up. but Monk and I had a somewhat enjoyuable game (would have been more fun, but I was alone on an island, nothing to do)

Have the people tried the ole turnbased mp? against one other?

[notyoueither]

Well atw, you did the right thing right off. You shut down the stuff that would have given you problems. You also didn't have anything else that messed things up. Lucky? A bit maybe, but most of the testers got it going without too much trouble. I needed some help at first, but some of the others helped me get going in about 10 minutes.

The unfortunate ones would be those who have something in the system that is not easy to detect or turn off. However, as more and more people get the game and get going we will get a better impression of what some of the bigger problem areas can be.

[Sheik]

I dont have PTW yet and love the rant threads. They tell me what is wrong. Then some poeple come along and say good things. The ranters have as much a right to post as the people complimenting the game do.

I hope that Firaxis is watching and is planning to fix things in a patch. Rants help make games better beacause it tells the programmers what is wrong.

[notyoueither]

True dat Sheik.

However, some of the rants are not entirely accurate descriptions of the facts and are not really helpful in any way beyond the 'fun' factor of Poly.

[WarpStorm]

You can count on the programmers being here, I saw Mike B around earlier.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Frustrated? I can understand that. However, you and others repeating over and over that it doesn't work, when in fact it does, or can be made to , is maybe frustrating for some of the users of this forum. It's also misleading to those who haven't tried yet.

I feel that I shouldn't have to go to the trouble of making it work. It should work.

Glad I haven't bought it yet.......

ACK!

[notyoueither]

Should it work on your old 486 running Win 3.11?

[Strakorfsky]

Hurin...

oh please, give me a break.

it doesnt work on MP smart one, not like the game crashes on single game or on lan. gosh, you must be one of those " know it alls"who think they are somehow smarter then everyone.

here is list of problkems voiced: constant crashigns on mp, unable to see gamelist on mp, unable to have a practical chat on mp, lag is extremly bad on mp, the patch and pirate versions of game are being used on mp, and many more all directing to MP.

NOT THE GAME, BUT THE MULTIPLAYER NETWORK. sheesh, the multpilayer network isn't even runned by firaxis, b**** to gamespy, they are currently directing games on it.

and as for your "bearing the problems", you don't seem to take in account th massive complexities of playing a high-end game like ptw on the internet, its not like war III and the diablo games, there are so many avriables that must be calculated that it will take long for it to work out.

now please,s top trying to act like a smart a**.