How playing against humans will be different...

[Buster13]

I think it's clear that since humans can be bluffed, feinted, and otherwise mislead where the computer simply has a standard strategy and responces will lead to many types of attempts at misinformation. It'll be like real life.

The UN thing earlier...if you're playing with a mix of humans and civs, it'll be interesting to see who the computer votes for. Before it was pretty easy to figure out who was going to vote for you after you built UN, but if you and a couple other human players are close to equal in power, and the computer civ likes you all...

Doesn't worker poaching set off war if there's not one currently brewing? Even if it doesn't, I bet it will now, regardless of whether or not this is automatic.

In a pure human game, no one will sign MPPs (at least I won't), but assisting people with war will be much more delicate and, well, selfish. If I don't see an interest in going to war, I won't. Of course, saving someone's skin in return for two techs and 200 g/turn might be enough to convince me.

I'm with you dissident, I'm afraid/looking forward to MP.

[ruby_maser]

minimizing borders

I was wondering if anyone will change how they expand? Try to be more centralized around the capital if possible, more hesitant to extend yourself beyond a more readily-defendable chokepoint, more willing to overlap cities in order to have an empire with the most defense capabilities and the minimum of borders.

I know, with the AI's attempts at strategy, these things were certainly less likely to be an issue before PTW, and I know I hated to overlap cities, etc. Hell, with the amount of distrust I would have for a human opponent vs. a AI opponent, I don't know if I would even want to expand in that direction at all... barring the fact that acquisition of resources might require it and the need to trade demands a certain grudging trust in the other guy.

Will you all still expand without regard to terrain or will you treat mountains and choke points and basically all natural barriers to invasion (or attack for that matter) with a bit more seriousness?

[MoonWolf]

I think it will be a big challenge. Like with Civ2 and Test of Time... The Civ2 AI (and I haven't still really seen it in Civ3) didn't make a D-day on your coast, but a human player sure could/will.

It depends on the game I think. Among my friends, there are only one real Civ-player, and I guess we would at start with a more or less cooperate style. But playing against other humans on the internet or against other friends, would mean several changes I guess (from my point of view):

*Have a stronger army already in the beginning
*Have strong defence points (cities, chokepoints etc)
*If the map supports it, stronger naval fleet and probably a lot more aircrafts and missiles
*Maybe devestating nuclear wars, or at least a cold war like USSR and USA had(has?)
*A human player would probably leave the game if she/he get a real hard time. The AI never "surrender".
*You will feel this isn't just a game any more. This is real.
*And stuff pointed out earlier; a more careful expantion, better trades, remembering your enemy from game to game and alliances against monopolists.

I have a bad habit of saving/loading simply because of some events I find unrealistic and stupid like a spearman beating a tank or a newly taken city cultur flipping with 2 armies and 10 modern armors in it (please don't make this to an other cultur flipping discussion). This I need to change.

Maybe we'll see a world like in "1984"; 3 superpowers fighting for a continent, switching alliances often and with the homelands quite safe...

I'm also a bit afraid of this. Especially as I still need some more practice at the higher levels... But looking very much forward to it.

[Inverse Icarus]

the chances of a human game (4+ players) making it to the modern age is SLIM if you have a group of 4 people you play with a lot.

Randomly online? you'll be lucky to see Industrial.

[sun_tzu_159]

Hi all,
You will get a problem with quitters in the game. If you are losing badly people will just leave. I hope there is a routine for this already built in.

There may be agreements not to attack before a certain time limit or age is reached as in AOE on-line games. Of course these are gentlemans agreements and someone may not follow the rule - interesting for trust in whole gaming community.

Will there also be an option for some computer components. Like 4 human players + 4 computer palyers in same game? Early game would be interesting, would all human gang up against AI or would human player try to make AI ally and attack another human player jointly?

The most interesting aspect I look forward to is the possibility of continental alliances. All civs on one continent would quickly make contact and cooperate in tech trading and researching each a different tech etc. to get an advantage. If there is three continents will all players on each continent be in mass alliances or have spent so much time fighting each other that they forget the other players in the game. Who gets to build GW's in such an alliance - can't wait to see the deviousness of it all.

Another Alliance could be secret alliance where you cooperate with neighbour one and are all friendly and nice while plotting war against him with neighbour two. Does the neighbour one tell neighbour two and form alliance to destroy you.

Without cooperation of some sort in the early game I think some players will leave really quickly and two players will battle it out for the majority of the game.

Anyway just a few thoughts

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[sun_tzu_159]

Moonwolf,
I have had the AI land on my coast big style. It happened in the early game when I was expanding and came across an American city in the middle of tundra on a river. I destroyed the city and created war with America for it. There was a small phony war then the Americans landed eight troops off ships next to a poorly defended coastal city. I was shocked by this in the game - I have only seen it once on this scale, otherwise just maximum of two troops landed.

The attack with armies across sea would be for sure be a major part of the human game which now has very little part with AI who usually only uses ships for expansion - not conquest. Units on ships is a big investment like settlers on land and would have to be protected by escort ships with no units on board. More AI decisions for game but for humans it is easy.

Human player could have large army on ships waiting to land as second wave behind land based attack for instance. Ooooh surprise.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[sun_tzu_159]

Hi all,
The memory of man will be longer than AI who only has memory for one game.

The grudge match will be played for once some opponents thought they shouldn't be beaten by you.

A good start location will be more vital than ever. You could spend three or four vital turns setting up that first city.

When PTW on-line games are finished the host/winner could post a report and downloadable file so that others may see how the game is playing. I know that it makes the game more enjoyable when you think to put a story behind it.

The decision over expansion I look forward to. I will tend against the AI to build a core of four to six superb production cities with a mass of smaller cities to defend the core and prevent AI expansion into useful territory for the later game. Against the human players you will not so much be able to do this as quickly - human players will be far more aggressive and unpredictable - sending a settler out will need two maybe three escort and/or a forward scout.

Mountains for distance look-out will become a scene for many battles as in ancient times. Sort of mini king of the hill games, especially where it overlooks a rivals territory.

Regards
Sun_Tzu

[kolpo]

Originally posted by sun_tzu_159

Will there also be an option for some computer components. Like 4 human players + 4 computer palyers in same game?
Sun_Tzu

I remember me having seen a screenshot where they did that, I think there where 8 slots who could been AI, human or closed, similar to the way AoE works.

[Raion]

So, it will be like the original game without any patches, but with everything working.

Like Deity Level, perhaps!

Maybe, smaller Civ's will form together to smash larger Civ's.

Mass mayhem and confusion.

(Smiley goes here!)

Some newbies will be suckered in by the veteran players!

The game is not all that bad afterall!

(Chuckles!)

[Dis]

quiters will be a problem. I had that problem with SMAC pbem's. Once they fall behind they just quit.

I think I read where there was an option where the ai would take over a civ if the human player left. This is a nice feature.

I do worry about ai civs. The humans will of course take them over to become more powerful. Or exploit them in some way. This will make starting position and starting contact very imporant.

I do think games will be won or lost in the first 30 or 40 turns. Of course the game will go on after that unless all the human players quit. But there is usally 1 human player in second place who will attempt to claw his way back.

[statusperfect]

I don't think people will be eliminated/out of the game that much. The fact that Civ3 corruption is massive added to the fact that human players take full advantage of all defendive techniques (mountain ranges, fortresses, radar tower, offensive defence... you name it) will male many countries not worth to conquer.

[Tiberius]

How playing against humans will be different...

We won't see too often players paradropping archers with helicopters, behind enemy lines

[-proletarian-]

Wow.....reading all this has me positively drooling for MP play.

The possibilities are endless.....just by playing against humans, so many problems in this game will be solved. Things mentioned above, such as units actually being upgraded, d-day invasions, feign attacks, retreating.....wars are going to be 1000x more complex.

This is really exciting. Well, maybe not that exciting.....

Ah hell, who am I kidding? It is that exciting!

[Chronus]

Some newbies will be suckered in by the veteran players!

True. But have you evered played a newbie who did things that were so dumb and unpredictable that he was actually . . . dangerous?

[Dis]

lol

What I hope to see (maybe even here) is a site to set up game.

I know a good site for neverwinter nights ( http://www.neverwinterconnections.com/ ) to set up games. they have a great system for rating other players as well. Sure its an RPG, but that type of website could work for civ3 PTW.

That could work with civ3. We need a site with a system that can rate players. Also we should separate the games into difficulty levels. I don't want to be playing you Diety players. You will thrash me. Also like the site above it provides a calender and correct time clock which makes thing nice and easy.