Treat ship as aeroplanes

[KaiserIsak]

Actually, the viking stopped on both Island and Greenland to "refuel" there. The ship with Leif Erikson (who reached New Foundland around year 1000) actually came from Island, not hole the way from Norway. Leif Erikson himself was son of the man who explored Greenland, Eirik Raude.
And we was able to micromanage bombers in civ2, and the easiest version of this dont have to be any more difficult then that.

[ruby_maser]

yes, yes

I'm aware they "refueled" so to speak, but each turn in that particular era of the game is 10-20 years long. I'd prefer to "pretend" that they were refueling than "pretend" it took them 20 years to do so.

[KaiserIsak]

My point is that it should not be possible to go on mayor voyages before they were actually done, techvise. And that coast/sea/ocean system is far from good enough.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

.According to the PtW chat at Civfanatics, we might be able to create an even greater seperation between naval vessels from different eras!
First, we already have the ability to give coastal,sea and ocean tiles different movement rates-which would make ocean travel for triremes almost impossible (or, at least, make it take several turns and chance a sinking!!). We also have the "treat all terrain as roads" flag which can now be applied to naval vessels-which would allow modern naval vessels have, at least, three times the movement rate of a trireme (even if they had the same MP's).
Now, though, we find that, in PtW, the editor will allow us to customize units, so that they ignore the movement penalties of certain terrains-meaning that, on that terrain, movement is always AT MOST 1mp!!! Not only does that mean that we can have units that move quicker in forests/jungles (say guerillas?), or in mountains/ice (alpine units, anyone ) but it also means that we could give a coastal, or sea, tile a minimum movement of, say, 2-then allow middle ages naval units the ability to ignore the movement penalty of this terrain!! This would allow us to seperate galleons and frigates from ancient naval units, whilst maintaining a balance between middle-ages and modern units!
Anyway, I reckon, though not perfect, this is good news all round .

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[AlecTrevylan00]

what would be cool.....
to make carriers have a 1x1 (and if it has 4 planes 3x3) culture border
I once read a quote "A modern navy IS the carrier. The carrier is the only thing which can project power. It doesnt matter is you have 100 destroyers, they cant project the power of an empire unless they are augmenting the power of a Carrier

Therefore you could put carriers right in on foreign coasts

[KaiserIsak]

As long as the terrain next to land always are coast, then it wont matter. You can still travel around africa, asia, siberia and back to portugal with an trireme.

[The_Aussie_Lurker]

You're right Kaiser BUT, if you set all coastal tiles to a movement cost of 2, then gave triremes a move of say 3 or 4, then imagine how many centuries it would take for that single trireme to travel from Europe to India (either via Africa, or North America or the Arctic), especially on a HUGE map. Seriously, by the time middle-ages naval units come into existence, you'd still be getting that trireme around the South Africa!! It wouldn't be worth it.
The Point I've been trying to make is that, on a standard Earth Map, you can now customise units to the point where physical features (such as mountains, rivers and seas) can be REAL barriers in one age, but easily traversible by more modern units!

Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.

[KaiserIsak]

Well, then the trireme would not even be useful on smaller distances, and that would be pointless, would´nt it?
But i agree that it is a great improvement with these new rules, offcourse i do (=

[Palaiologos]

The Athenians invaded Sicily following the coastline of Southern Italy simply because triremes were unable to operate away from land. The Persians lost an entire army in Greece due to storms. Pyrrhus lost half his men en route to Italy, because he traveled directly from Epirus not following the coastlines.
That is somehow depicted in Civ3. Giving ocean tiles extra movement cost is a bad idea IMHO.

[Hail Caesar!]

You people have way too much free time. It's only a game for chrissakes.

[Optimizer]

The movement for ships should be increased indeed. Maybe one could build Lighthouses which double the speed of all friendly ships within a small radius. The Great Lighthouse would then act as if there were lighthouses everywhere.

Maybe ships should be slowed down or take damage when they explore black tiles.

These ideas should be saved for Civ 4, though.

[Dis]

ground units can plunder the land for support. I'm OK with unit support. Although in modern times more complex supply lines are needed with oil etc. But in ancient times armies supported themselves as they moved accross enemy territory.

As for ships those are good ideas.

but I'd like to see a "time" trait. Older naval units should only be able to move a few turns before they have to get back to base. This would increas by the time caravels come about obviously. And galleons would be nearly self sufficent. But by the time modern ships come about oil and food needs to be taken in consideration. So modern ships should have time limits outside of port as well. But (an important but) there should be tankers and resupply ships as well as being able to use friendly cities as ports.