Expansionistic trait should be dropped, it's a wasted trait

[N. Machiavelli]

I suppose that it takes different strokes for different folks. The Expansionist trait will, as many say, be a strong tool in MP. In SP, it's underpowered thanks to the omnipotence of the AI, but far from useless.

As for the scouting around before restarting; I take what is given. I play the game for the challange. If I wanted to try to get the highest score possible, I'd make a custom map in the Editor and manually place myself. Instead I choose to prove to myself that I can overcome using skill regardless of tundra; making the end victory all the more sweet. Waste of time? Hardly, IMHO.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by N. Machiavelli
I suppose that it takes different strokes for different folks. The Expansionist trait will, as many say, be a strong tool in MP. In SP, it's underpowered thanks to the omnipotence of the AI, but far from useless.

Very well stated Nicolo. I agree with your assessment, and I think I was being too harsh by saying it sucks. It's just not MY first choice of traits in SP, but it could be someone else's.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
Sorry, I play my games out till it is clear that it's totally hopeless (I've won a few tundra starts) and count it as a loss by retiring. This isn't ever in the first few turns.

Hehe you're a better man than me. But you at least gotta give me credit for admitting I reload every now and then.

[Darkworld Ark]

I myself edited the Expantionist trait in my "Republic" mod so Scouts are Settlers that cost 1 pop & have 2 movement. It works pretty well. I'll proboly have my friends use my mod in multiplayer.

[Athitis]

Expansionist civs are good and have an early advantage to the game....but that's all. Let us not forget that in MP balances change quickly and even the most powerful/mighty civ can lose from an obviously lesser civ, even when he was quite some techs ahead of the others.

IMHO the best traits are Scientific and Commercial, so i usually play with the Greeks ( but also the Germans-can't wait to play as Celts and Spanish too!). The commercial can really boost your economy latter in the game ( a large empire is useless when there's so much corruption/waste IMO) and it makes a nice combo with Scientific, which I personally value as the best of all traits.

In MP there's a fine line between victory and loss!

[WarpStorm]

Athitis, I find that being ahead in the beginning means being ahead for the entire game. In addition, there are no "pure" expansionistic teams. They all have another trait. Expansionistic-Scientific gets lots of tech. Expansionistic-Militaristic steamrollers of the start continent etc. I used to slam expansionistic, too, till I was shown the light.

[asleepathewheel]

I wish these dueling threads would be consolidated.

[WarpStorm]

In a couple of months we'll see which ones really work best, not just against an easily exploitable AI.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by WarpStorm
In a couple of months we'll see which ones really work best, not just against an easily exploitable AI.

true.

I really hope that each trait can be used effectively, that any trait can dominate if used by a pro. No fun if everyone wants to be Japanese or Aztecs. Diversity.

[Inverse Icarus]

Originally posted by Artifex
You think PTW games are gonna be long and drawn out? I wonder how the simultaneous moves will help this, if at all.

i know mine will be, but i play with a bunch of friends i know IRL.

[Zero]

I really hope that each trait can be used effectively, that any trait can dominate if used by a pro. No fun if everyone wants to be Japanese or Aztecs. Diversity.

I for am not gonna choose mil/rel combo, especially with new improved comm trait.

And for you insulting expansionist, jus admit you don't know how to use it. if its not your style then fine, but dont diss wat you dont like. Early domination is CRITICAL in SP civ. and thats with even not as so much as with ai cause ai is dumb and can actually slip up their lead to you, but it will even be more CRITICAL when PtW comes out. I can't stress how early dominance is important. it just is. anything that helps you get head start is a powerful trait. and as for someone saying exploration is not powerful in SP? AIs value world map just as much as a smart human player knowing "knowledge is power" does.

[Traelin]

Originally posted by Calc II
And for you insulting expansionist, jus admit you don't know how to use it. if its not your style then fine, but dont diss wat you dont like.

It's not that I don't know how to use it. I just consider Expansionist to be a more passive-aggressive approach to gaining the early lead, and that may very well fit someone else's gaming style.

Originally posted by Calc II
Early domination is CRITICAL in SP civ. and thats with even not as so much as with ai cause ai is dumb and can actually slip up their lead to you, but it will even be more CRITICAL when PtW comes out. I can't stress how early dominance is important.

My response on SP:
Generally that early lead isn't going to last (technologically speaking, at least not without the Great Library). Like I said before, others may very well like it. Personally I prefer to be Militaristic, since I more easily crush my opponents into giving me their Techs, while simultaneously taking cities and gaining leaders at a much faster pace. The leaders in turn gimme my Great Library, Sistine Chapel, etc. etc. Of course, the captured workers are useful in mining the crap outta my grasslands, but ugh I'm mixing in all the things I like about Mil., which is OT.

That's just me though. I'm probably one of the biggest warmongerers out there, so maybe you're right, Mil. just suits me better.

My response on MP:
I agree, Expansionist will play a BIG role in MP, for reasons I've mentioned in previous posts.

[Artifex]

I love militaristic too, by far. Great leaderes en masse are invaluable at the high levels emperor/diety. They help you get those critical wonders you would otherwise lose. And warmongering is my style.

[WarpStorm]

Traelin, there are Expansionistic-Militaristic civs (Zulus and now Mongols and Vikings). They are great for early conquering.

[Sonic]

I would add the following traits:
Agriculture (bigger food production)
Urbanistic (no need for aqueduct and hospital to expand cities)
Maritime (+1 tile of movement for all sea units)