Expansionistic trait should be dropped, it's a wasted trait

[LionQ]

Well, that's an idea. But how about the Explorer? What would you suggest for making him better then your Scout?

[WarpStorm]

So having a free unit that explores twice as fast as it's contemporaries and only has good search results isn't enough?

[LionQ]

Yes, it is! But some people here do think else about that...

[Zero-Tau]

My thoughts on Expansionist:

It is quite circumstantial. If you happen to start on a small island, the scout won't do much good, although you might get better results from the few goody huts you could find. OTOH, on a pangea or continent, the scout will be a huge benefit because you can gain knowledge of the area very quickly, as well as taking quite a few goody huts before your non-expansionist opponents do.

My suggestion for a change would be this: Add a new, expansionist-only unit, a boat with stats 0.0.4 (so it would die without fight if someone attacked, like with scout), which is able to carry 2 non-military units (settler, worker, scout, explorer). This unit would be available right from the beginning (though you wouldn't start with one), and can later be upgraded to a galleon.

This might make Expansionist more useful on maps with a lot of water.

[player1]

Personnaly,
I would give cheaper Corthouse to Expansionist.

[WarpStorm]

In general, the expansionistic civs can get map-making fastest of the civs (and the English the quickest since both bonus techs lead to it).

[LionQ]

I think it's already so that the Courthouse is cheaper for Expansionastic Civs. Indeed, MapMaking is very easy to research for Expansionastic Civs, indeed for the English.

Good idea of that 0.0.4 Ship, Zero-Tau! Only I'd think you don't have much benefit if you're starting on a huge continent (same as the Scout on a smáll continent). Suggestion: if you're starting on a small island/continent, then you should can build the 0.0.4 Ship for Expansionist. And if you're starting on a huge continent/pangaea, you should start with a normal Scout.

[monkspider]

I'll just say this, I used to doubt expansionist civs, but they are now possibly my favorite.
I used to post paragraphs full of nonsense about Firaxis improving it and so forth. I have now been enlightened.

Beyond that, it is easily the most desirable trait to have in MP, IMO.

[LionQ]

Maybe. It's depending on your game style.

[WarpStorm]

Monk, you and I must have had instruction from the same master

[LionQ]

That would be nice for you, WarpStorm+monkspider.

[NeOmega]

BAH! This is an old debate. Expansionist's greatest attribute is you begin to use the special trait on your first turn. Your scout immediately begins to explore.

Many people's favorite, scientific..... you have to get literacy before it even becomes worth anything. A good player can get their in like 60 or 70 turns on emporer. By then the expansionist has searched the world over, traded techs to your neighbors you were hoping to trade techs with, and is enjoying a good jump-start. All the while you hope you can play catch up.

It's all about how you start.

I have no objections to any trait and fell they are all balanced.

[LionQ]

That's right, it will indeed take many turns to get to Literacy and once you're there, an expansionistic player has searched the whole surrounding area, and beyond, already. That's means that in this case, and so it will probably often be, Expansionist is better then Scientific.

[Hail Caesar!]

I must say that I always play as Americans because, well, we're number one . The world leaders (well, besides me) are always either Persia, Egypt, or France. For some reason China usually sucks. A case against militarism? Probably not, reading these posts. I think the traits match the player's style pretty well. Which reminds me, if I'm playing MP and I start next to the Zulus or Japanese, I'm either going to be very worried or very aggressive....

Anyway, I play as America because they are Industrious and also because of nationality (yes, I'm weird). For this reason, I have had to adapt my strategy to Expansionism, which isn't really a problem. I like getting all of those free techs, which the Aztecs don't, even though some people think their Jaguar warriors are equivalent of Scouts.

By the way, for my fellow Expansionist friends, here's a little tip that you may or may not have figured out. You never ever get from a goody hut the tech you are researching! I tried this a few times with reloads. Therefore, NEVER set science to Iron Working. Always set your science advisor to research the useless techs, like Mysticism. (You will discover Mysticism in 40 turns before you are ready to build the Oracle anyway).

When you are Expansionist, you will ALWAYS have swordsmen before everyone else. You've already built one or two cities near the wheat and cows, so you can build settlers faster and send them towards the iron tiles, which your scouts will have discovered before anyone else, after the goody huts give you the technology first.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Hail Caesar!
By the way, for my fellow Expansionist friends, here's a little tip that you may or may not have figured out. You never ever get from a goody hut the tech you are researching! I tried this a few times with reloads. Therefore, NEVER set science to Iron Working. Always set your science advisor to research the useless techs, like Mysticism. (You will discover Mysticism in 40 turns before you are ready to build the Oracle anyway).

I've certainly noticed that! I put my science towards monarchy (something I don't use) and get republic from a hut and out of the ancient age.