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  • #1

    Turks

    1. Leader
    So, the leader of the turks will be Osman, after all.
    No Mehmet II (or Mohammed II) the Conqueror, no Suleyman the Magnificent.

    From what I've found searching about him, Osman (1259-1326) was the founder of the Ottoman Empire. From this point of view, he seems a good choice.

    2. Special abilities
    Industrial/Scientific ??? Quite absurd, IMHO.

    3. Unique unit
    sipahi: cavalry with increased attack; 7-3-3.
    Here it is what it says on britannica.com about the sipahis (or spahis):
    spahi = feudal cavalryman of the Ottoman Empire whose status resembled that of the medieval European knight. The spahi (from Persian for “cavalryman”) was holder of a fief (timar; Turkish: timar) granted directly by the Ottoman sultan and was entitled to all of the income from it in return for military service.
    Here it says "feudal cavalry", while in other places it is mentioned as "light cavalry", that fought in the 15th-16th century. Now why the hell is he an advanced cavalry, with attack bonus?

    Edited: They are ottomans, not turks! My mistake.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by Tiberius; August 30, 2002, 07:52.
    "The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
    --George Bernard Shaw
    A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
    --Woody Allen
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  • #2
    I think it's a bit late to be complaining about historical inaccuracies.

    Comment

    • #3
      Unless mistaken the name Ottoman derives from Osman.
      He is considered to be the founding father of the Turks.Much like Abraham for the jews.

      I think he is the perfect choice.And by the way Tiberius i was planning to post a thread with the same subject myself but you beat me to it ,it seems.
      "Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII

      All those who want to die, follow me!
      Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.

      Comment

      • #4
        Strong civ traits and special unit. If I get PTW, I may start with these guys...

        Comment

        • #5
          And i really can not figure out why they made them industrius and scientific.My guess is fireaxis swallowed Turkish propaganda.

          They tend to make their ancestors appear benevolent and patrons of sciences.

          The truth however is that those barbarians were amongst the most bloodthirsty and expansionist of all the mongol originated races.
          "Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII

          All those who want to die, follow me!
          Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.

          Comment

          • #6
            sounds like someone has been listening to Greek propaganda...
            CSPA

            Comment

            • #7
              It is not my fault if you can not accept the truth Gangerolf.

              Turks are a scourge of this earth.
              Last edited by Palaiologos; August 31, 2002, 04:41.
              "Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII

              All those who want to die, follow me!
              Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.

              Comment

              • #8
                hey, i didn't say you were wrong
                CSPA

                Comment

                • #9
                  It seems just about everyone, except Albanians & Muslim Bosnians, reserve a very special hatred just for the Turks. From what the Turks did I can't blame them either.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Oerdin
                    It seems just about everyone, except Albanians & Muslim Bosnians, reserve a very special hatred just for the Turks. From what the Turks did I can't blame them either.

                    How could the Turks have done anything to anybody?

                    All they did was to construct places of wonder, erect huge temples and universities and achieve breakthroughs in science.

                    At least according to official Fireaxis history.
                    "Military training has three purposes: 1)To save ourselves from becoming subjects to others, 2)to win for our own city a possition of leadership, exercised for the benefit of others and 3)to exercise the rule of a master over those who deserve to be treated as slaves."-Aristotle, The Politics, Book VII

                    All those who want to die, follow me!
                    Last words of Emperor Constantine XII Palaiologos, before charging the Turkish hordes, on the 29th of May 1453AD.

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Well, they really weren't so bad as long as they were conquering and expanding. When they stagnated and allowed their janissaries unlimited power, things started to get messy.
                      Besides, one could always point out the massacres of Balkan muslims by rebellious Serbs or the out of control banditry, ransoming and murder of Greek bands of criminals.

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        BTW they ought to be militaristic and either commercial or religious

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Have to admit that the Turks/Ottomans aren't liked at all. The Greeks would have most hatred towards them because of the Turks destruction of the Greek lands and so on. Istanbal used to be Constantanople (sp) which was one of the greatest cities in the world with the largest Greek Orthodox church anywhere. When the Turks too Constantanople this church was converted to a Mosque. This is only one way that i hate them. Maybe this is how they can be considered industrious(bulls....).

                          There are so many other ways and stories that can be told on how and why the Turks are hated.

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            The Turks definitely deserved to be in this.

                            However, when I get PTW, I'm changing their attributes since they were neither scientific, nor industrious. Militaristic/Commercial seems like the most fitting combo.

                            I was also thinking of making the Janissary their UU (musketman of some sort), but now that I know what the Sipahai is, I guess they deserve the place as UU instead.

                            And BTW, yes, Osman is an excellent choice.
                            "Corporation, n, An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility." -- Ambrose Bierce
                            "Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both." -- Benjamin Franklin
                            "Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction." -- Thomas Jefferson

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                            • #15
                              Yes, probably the turks deserve to be in, even though you won't find many people in Central, Eastern and South-Eastern Europe who don't hate them. But that's another story.

                              Obviously the most shocking about the Ottomans are their special abilities: Industrial/Scientific It's a total mistery to me how and why did Firaxis make this choice.
                              I'd say militaristic or expansionistic would fit them, at least one if not both. If not militaristic/expansionistic then militaristic/religious. I wouldn't choose commercial for the turks, but for the arabs.
                              "The only way to avoid being miserable is not to have enough leisure to wonder whether you are happy or not. "
                              --George Bernard Shaw
                              A fast word about oral contraception. I asked a girl to go to bed with me and she said "no".
                              --Woody Allen

                              Comment

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