Tweet
We should keep the really advanced ideas for mods.
-
The difference between industrial society and information society:
In an industrial society you take a shower when you have come home from work.
In an information society you take a shower before leaving for work. -
Interesting. Does anyone know "Emperor of the fading suns" (1997, I think)? It was not really an exciting game, but its resource system was great...Originally posted by panag
hi ,
it sounds intresting , but we should use something complicated as a resource , ....
oil and minerals make plastic , plastic is needed to build unit X , or building y , something like that would be great , ....
have a nice dayComment
-
I remember Emperor of the Fading Suns; great game. And yes, it did have a really well fleshed-out resource system. Something like that could work well in Civ, but I think it would definately need to be kept optional; not everyone wants to deal with that level of micro-management. But, even a simpler resource-chain system could really add a lot of options to the game.Comment
-
One thing I really learned during so many years babbling about Civ "wish list" is that you can always find a single game that did a better implementation of a single game concept: a better trade system or a better combat system, a better diplomacy model or a better research system, a better graphic or a better building model, a better population model or a better random event management.
The key, IMHO, is that you can't build a game that fit every taste in a viable gameplay, a realistic time effort and a learning curve not so stepped to need an alpinistic player effort
OR is the keyword. Chose a game trait and focus your game mostly there.
When you try to manage 6000+ years of history you must manage so many things that usually you'll need many dedicated and detailed different games! Please look at my signature to have a feel about my Civ game opinion.
In this thread your focus is on trading and producing, but how about exploring, fighting, discovering, expanding, have diplomatic agreement... and so on?
Not mentioning a cluster of different game to suit every different taste, the Civ Dream Game should be a game "skeleton", a main structure with a general AI to support modular expansion that Firaxis or authorized developers (maybe advanced modder, too) would sell as separate parts.
On a common background (you must have some limit, you know ), every player should chose and fit detailed or general module, everyone with a dedicated AI part to manage the related game rules.
An example, thinking about an Object Oriented model (not exactly, but you get the idea):
General Civ skeleton, with main game interface
Main Map generator (world appearance, define type of supported map, define a Terrain related victory - as global dominance)
Basic Resource module (layer to add production effects on the main map)
Basic tech module (a simple research tree, it also define a Tech related victory, if allowed)
Advanced tech module (a complex, multipath tech tree: inherit the Tech basic victory adding detailed condition)
Basic combat module (a fight with simple rules, resolved at high level as Civ currently do; it also define the basic Combat victory as total conquer)
Advanced combat module (a tactical detailed zoom, with formation support, advanced stack etc.)
Every time you can chose a basic module for every aspect (trade, production, fight, diplomacy, etc.) as the basic game should probably be sold, or detail some part of the game installing (like a plug-in) a different module for your beloved aspect of the game.
Free or bought, you simply take what you want, and advanced fan community or authorized developers could always try to build and develop a different aspect. Firaxis/Infogrames will still gain lot of money selling the basic game and licensing commercial module to others developers: in first person shooters that's already a reality.
Well, time to awake now: the dream must end, before the pratical obstacle and the mess of code interface will change it into a nightmare
"We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
- Admiral NaismithComment
-
Does Firaxis pay you for this?Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
The key, IMHO, is that you can't build a game that fit every taste in a viable gameplay, a realistic time effort and a learning curve not so stepped to need an alpinistic player effort
No, okay, I think you are right... but we still hope the perfect game will come one day.Comment
-
Originally posted by Caliban
Does Firaxis pay you for this?
No, okay, I think you are right... but we still hope the perfect game will come one day.
When Civ III was about to be released and some limits where know I did so many critics that I barely avoid a flame (some posters probably forgive me because I'm Italian and - if not for translation mistake - I don't give name to anyone).
I still think some people add me to their "ignore list" because of my not really positive note about the Holy Game I shouldn't be alllowed to mention
(MarkG or DanQ, can you confirm this? Only by numbers, not by name of course).
But game market change, and so do game programming. I hope someone will enhance the "best strategic game of the breed" in a way I'll like it. Quick programming miracle are appreciate, but not really required
"We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
- Admiral NaismithComment
-
Hey, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is always welcome here!Originally posted by Adm.Naismith
When Civ III was about to be released and some limits where know I did so many critics that I barely avoid a flame (some posters probably forgive me because I'm Italian and - if not for translation mistake - I don't give name to anyone).
I still think some people add me to their "ignore list" because of my not really positive note about the Holy Game I shouldn't be alllowed to mention (MarkG or DanQ, can you confirm this? Only by numbers, not by name of course).
But game market change, and so do game programming. I hope someone will enhance the "best strategic game of the breed" in a way I'll like it. Quick programming miracle are appreciate, but not really required
And all of us know that Civ III is far away from being the perfect game...
Comment
-
Nice idea. But it should not increase Micromanagement.Greatest moments in cat:
__________________
"Miaooow..!"Comment
-
It would decrease micromanagement, as you would not have to care about colonies or resource trading any more when you are able to simply produce the resource you need...Originally posted by BigFurryMonster
Nice idea. But it should not increase Micromanagement.Comment
-
well if you would not have to worry about establishing colonies, defending vital territory that gives resource and such, it would take alot away from the game... its all a matter of balance, and if city produced resource can somehow have Pro (obviously generate resource) and a con (perhaps has limit of some sort) that scales it perfectly agst each other, it would work.
degree of micromanagement required for a perfect game, thats more of a personal question. Some people would love the idea of logistical supplying of troops, given report of how many people serve in each represented unit, decide how many to give them leave to boost morale, sned them a celebrity to sing concerts... Some of us (actually i tink most of us including me) would think such idea as horrendous.:-pComment
-
I did not deny that... the struggle for resources is one of the most challenging parts of CivIII...Originally posted by Calc II
well if you would not have to worry about establishing colonies, defending vital territory that gives resource and such, it would take alot away from the game...Comment
-
Several obvious ways in which you could have this feature, and yet still preserve the importance of natural resources:
1) Most of the improvements or wonders mentioned would be the result of late game techs! Thus, throughout the rest of the game, you'd still need these resources, and Luxuries!
2) Some of the ideas mentioned have the improvement converting a more common resource into a rarer type-eg. coal--->Oil. Therefore, you'd still need to have some source of coal in order for it to work. Other improvements mentioned would need the resource it produces-in order to build it-eg. stables need horses to build but, once built, becomes the prerequisite for future mounted units! Again, though, you need to aquire that resource, at first, or else you're stuffed!
3) These improvements will, by there nature, become targets in any war with another civ! If they are destroyed, then you'd better hope that you have a natural source of the resource produced within your grasp, or else you might be up a certain creek without a you-know-what .
Anyway, that's my thoughts!
Yours,
The_Aussie_Lurker.Comment
-
Oil should be found in ocean squares... that my opinion tho you can rarely have a city reaching ocean squares, so if you could build a sea colony OR have offshoreplatform produce oil it would be nice.
One thing that must be implemented with artificial resources for balance sake. Cannot be traded, Cannot be traded within empire, Produces major pollution. Some wonders can also serve as resource producer, in wonders case it should pretty much mimic natural resource if thats wat the wonder is soley for.:-pComment
-
hbout coal to oil conversion to being 2:1? after all when converted it weilds extreme inefficiency.:-pComment
-
AFAIK Civ III doesn't manage quantity of available resource: one is enough to supply all your (connected) empire. So we should introduce another variable (quantity), a meter to let the player know how much resource is left, and a table to show resource consume per turn, per city dimension and number of units...Originally posted by Calc II
hbout coal to oil conversion to being 2:1? after all when converted it weilds extreme inefficiency.
"We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
- Admiral NaismithComment
Comment