Viking Special Unit

[HazieDaVampire]

How about a Viking, the word viking means somthing about attacking towns from the sea! So it should be like a marine from that time!

[HazieDaVampire]

oh and Zulu, at the time the Viking were better fighters than saxons, but their ships were crap at fighting. The Saxons used to try to kill the ships, and not kill the vikings on land! I'f you were to make a Dragon-ship, it should have 1 2 or maby even 3 more move points than everybody else, and be able to traverse sea squares or somthing like that, but it shouldn't be better at fighting.

[GoodFella]

Longboat should be UU. Mabee carries more units and can travel one square farther.

This would be a big stretch, but the ability too travel up and down rivers would be good for the longboat.

And it should also replace Caravel.

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by HazieDaVampire
oh and Zulu, at the time the Viking were better fighters than saxons, but their ships were crap at fighting. The Saxons used to try to kill the ships, and not kill the vikings on land! I'f you were to make a Dragon-ship, it should have 1 2 or maby even 3 more move points than everybody else, and be able to traverse sea squares or somthing like that, but it shouldn't be better at fighting.

Perhaps the ship design was inferior, but surely the Vikings were better at boarding tactics...

btw it was Trip

[HazieDaVampire]

Boarding tactics, the Saxons boats at the time were twice the size, and look like early medievil boats!

I still think a Viking would be best, thats what the vikings are! Viking means attacking towns from the sea!
It should act like an Early Marine, attacking from the sea.

[snuggs]

Viking doesn't have anything to do with towns - it's a troublesome participle-like word which came to take in the entire range of Norse activity overseas - basically 'going a-viking' describes every Scandinavian who left his valley with adventure in mind, no matter whether he sought fame by piracy, trade or mercenary service.

My conception of the longship unit would be it was exactly like a trireme but could move into sea - not ocean - move one space faster, and have a nominal bombarding value. Not sure about increasing the carrying capacity, as longships were not that big and 'galleys' seem to represent every pre-modern ship type including huge Levantine / Roman / Chinese craft. Longships should be small, hardy and nippy but not Sea Behemoths.

[Darkworld Ark]

Originally posted by snuggs
I would support Expansionist/Commercial for the Vikings, Militaristic would go against the much-noted individualist character of the Vikings. Besides tehy were traders before soldiers.

They should DEFFINITLY be Militaristic, their religion was based around war, & for most people, whenever you think about Vikings, you think about destruction. I'm guessing that the other trait will be Commercial, since they were (sort of) able to keep a far stretching empire. Expantionist just doesn't fit, since they Vikings really aren't well known for their land-based scouts or their friendly relations with 'barbarians'.

[snuggs]

No way. What people think when they think of Vikings may be ravished maidens and burning monasteries but only Commercial - Expansionist describes the people that shipped silver from Turkestan to Ireland, walrus ivory from the White Sea to North Africa, opened up the North Sea and the trade route round the North Cape, penetrated the Russian rivers, introduced currency and urbanism to Ireland, Scotland, Russia and the Baltic lands... and so on ad nauseam. Militaristic implies a heavily-regimented society geared towards all-engulfing war, not the classic Viking culture of independent mercenary bands and locally-mounted raiding expeditions.

[Metaliturtle]

They should DEFFINITLY be Militaristic, their religion was based around war, & for most people, whenever you think about Vikings, you think about destruction. I'm guessing that the other trait will be Commercial, since they were (sort of) able to keep a far stretching empire. Expantionist just doesn't fit, since they Vikings really aren't well known for their land-based scouts or their friendly relations with 'barbarians'.

NO, for most inteligent people, you do not think of destruction when you think of Vikings. They just used tactics of rapid EXPANSION and felt that the other nations weren't worth saving. Certainly they had no major organized military hirearchy or other such staples of truly militaristic societies, they may have fought on arrival, but fighting was never their main goal.

[zulu9812]

nonetheless, a militaristic & expansionist combination best simulates this rapid expansion. Their religion was based around dying to get into Valhalla. But more than that, giving the Vikings Expansionist and Commercial gives them the two worst traits!

btw - anyone think that the expansionist-specific unit should be another settler, just as a short term fix?

[DrFell]

They should be expansionist and militaristic IMHO, although that would leave us with three such civs. As for UUs I think they should have some Longboat unit, a galley replacement with an extra move. This is much more powerful than you might think, as you can:

1 - Out-manouvre the other ships around in that period,

2 - Move 2 squares from coast tiles then two squares back, with no risk of suicide unlike standard galleys, or move 4 squares out if you're willing to risk your galley's lives. This is a great boon to sea exploration.

In other words, you have a powerful UU capable of ruling the seas on island maps. Taking a peaceful route your island would be almost immune to invasion in the ancient age, taking the aggressive route you are capable of quickly transporting large attack forces over to your opponent to raid or conquer, taking the expansionist route you can find remote islands and resources and take control of them before your opponents even get close to them.

Expansionist isn't that bad a trait, and will be much better in MP. And remember, expansionist and commercial leave you two techs from mapmaking, a great tech on an island map, and the route to the longboat UU if it is in the game.

[Incan_Warrior]

I think Dr Fell summed it up. Although I agree with some other posters - perhaps the longboat can have +1 movement AND can carry an additional unit. I don't agree with providing the longboat a bombardment feature.

I also think that because the Vikings were, in reality, expansionists, commercialist and militaristic - any 2 of these 3 would be appropriate.

[Leo826]

yes, I agree that the longboat should have +1 movement and +1 transport capacity.

[Robber Baron]

I'd go with a longboat too -- but I'd call it a drakkar. I'd give it extra movement, 3 unit holding capacity ... and I'd let land-based units unload directly from the vessel to attack coastal cities (like marines in the later age). No mounted units, though, just warriors and swordsmen. And city walls would negate this capability.
That's a lot of rules, but it would aproximate our historical stereotype nicely, and it would be cool.
And though it might seem like too big an advantage, remember it would only be effective against coastal cities.

[snuggs]

As I said before, though; longboats, compared to contemporary Mediterranean/Arab/Chinese craft, were tiny. Their strength was in their toughness, speed and flexibility. So whatever they're given, no increased attack and no bigger hold capacity, I'd say.