Viking Special Unit

[snuggs]

I notice from the screenshots the Viking special unit has been made the 'Berserk'. That's a big disappointment. Berserkers could never have been said to have formed any unit on the scale of Civ, were lone crazed individuals whose job was less to fight than demoralise an unarmed foe. Viking field armies fought behind shields and attacked only when the enemy broke. If there is to be a Viking-specific LAND unit, let it be the Huskarl, which should be a bit like the Roman Legion unit.

On the other hand, what do we remember the Vikings for - SEAFARING! The English have a naval special unit and the Americans get an air one - so why not give the Vikings Longships? Like a galley, but faster, can cross sea but not ocean without sinking, and possibly with a small bombard value to represent those bloody berserkers.

[Incan_Warrior]

word to your mother.

I agree (not meant to be a Xarxo spam).

I hope their leader is Eric the Red.

[Firebird]

The problem is as far as I am concerned that a longship UU must come very early to be of value. To me the navy is nearly only there for transportation of units over water. To have a military effect it must be a landunit.

Actually the vikings where much more traders (as far as present-day Turkey), explorers (they discovered Greenland and America) and expansionists (founding settlements in present-day Iceland, Greenland (later abandoned), Canada (later abandoned), England, Ireland, Russia and France).

Hm, looks like an expansionistic (or militaristic), commercial civ...

[Incan_Warrior]

I can see Firebird's point, but I still like the idea of a Viking longboat. A player's strategy varies depending on the Civ they play, and a player would just have to adopt a naval strategy if they choose to play the Vikings. There's no doubt that land is 'where the action is', but (as much as I hate dealing with naval units) I think Civ 3 can be expanded as a game by putting more action on the ocean. For instance, oil could be modded to show up on the ocean floor and Civ's could battle for the resource. SeewhatI'msayin?

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Incan_Warrior
I hope their leader is Eric the Red.

why?
yes, he discovered Greenland (he killed someone and had to leave Iceland) and his son Leiv discovered America, but he wasn't a king or anything like that

[Andrew_Jay]

Perhaps replace the caraval with the longboat. Sure the galley looks like one already, but the Norse were more a late Late Ancient/Early Medieval (about 400 - 1200 ? ). Also, I think an upgraded galley would be too powerful. While other civs are stuck patrolling their coast and sending ships to die in hopes of finding land, the Vikings could be everywhere settling like crazy.

[Chandragupta]

Gangerolf has the right train of thought here, why eric the red? Canute would be a much better leader from everything i've read about viking history.

[Mikhail]

I agree, a Huskarl is a much better choice than Berserker. The 'berserk' included (as well as the AoE version) already look like the ax-wielding Huskarls, might as well give them the proper name.

Longboat is better than anything else, but as it's been said, I don't see how it could be effectively implemented (I say this as if all the other UUs were effectively implemented *shrugs*) I'd just give it extra move and attack though, rather than letting it travel on sea squares. maybe allow it to transport more units.

As for the leader of the Vikings, it will either be Erik the Red or Leif Erikson. Just look at Joan of Arc or Gandhi. Firaxis goes for the popular choice, not the practical one (canute)

[Darkworld Ark]

Just imagine that the Berserker is a Huskarl or rename it in the editor, it's not that hard. I myself wouldn't mind if it was called the Viking Fruity-tootie, as long as it gets the job done.

As for these Longships, I can't see how they'd be very usefull, or at least not as usefull as a anphibous Swordsman. Even if they were used, they should definitly replace galleys. Just because the Native American Mounted Warrior came was around in the 1600s doesn't mean it should replace Cavalry.

As for the leader, Firaxis uses the most known leaders, & not neccisarily the most historicly acurate, just look at Cleopatra or Abe Lincon.

[History Guy]

The Huscarl is an excellent suggestion. These were the boys who would be in the front lines swinging the huge battle-axes around. Simon Schama writes of them in his A History of Britain, Pt. 1, and he writes that a well aimed blow from a huscarl's axe could cut through horse and rider.

The only problem is that they were more of a Saxon or an Anglo-Saxon unit than a Viking unit.

[Incan_Warrior]

In response to Gangerolf, I hope for Erik the Red because he's got notoriety - like Mikhail has already mentioned. Furthermore, while Canute is definitely known as the foremost leader of the Vikings 'era', I don't think he captures the true barbaric and marauding spirit that the Vikings are known for (whereas Erik the Red does). Canute led an organized rule and I always think of the Vikings as an unorganized band of brutes. I'm no expert on the facts, this is just my generalization. For a cool, brief timeline of Viking events, check this out:

http://viking.no/e/etimeline.htm

[Robber Baron]

Nice to see the Schama reference, History Guy. Great stuff!

[Papa Chubby]

I personally believe that the infamous dragon-ship of the Vikings would be more appropiate as their UU. Because as History guy said the Huskarl´s were very much a design of the Angle-Saxons. Besides, what made the Vikings what they were, were not fighting abilities, but their ships and seafaring abilities. I think the Longship should replace the Trireme and have 1+ Attack.

[snuggs]

Re Huskarls - Canute introduced these to the English OB, they were a Scandinavian creation. You could call them Hersirs instead I suppose. I partly wanted Huskarls so I could create a custom Anglo-Saxon civ

I would support Expansionist/Commercial for the Vikings, Militaristic would go against the much-noted individualist character of the Vikings. Besides tehy were traders before soldiers.

Re the leader. It was Canute in Civ 2, surely it'll be him again in this expansion. Erik Bloodaxe otherwise, last and greatest of the psycho-Nords.

[zulu9812]

Originally posted by Papa Chubby
I personally believe that the infamous dragon-ship of the Vikings would be more appropiate as their UU. Because as History guy said the Huskarl´s were very much a design of the Angle-Saxons. Besides, what made the Vikings what they were, were not fighting abilities, but their ships and seafaring abilities. I think the Longship should replace the Trireme and have 1+ Attack.

Absolutely. The Vikings were a great seafaring nation who made it all the way to the Americas long before Columbus ever did. The dragon-ship should be a replacement for the galley, but should be able to traverse sea & ocean tiles. Perhaps it should have superior stats as well.

btw - there is no Trireme in CivIII