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Originally posted by Mikhail
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Would you say that Americans are the same as English?
The Americans are a helluva a lot culturally similar to the English than the Byzantines are to the Romans 1000 years before.
The Byzantines and the Romans weren't even members of the same race. and if included in Civ 3, it'd be more realistic to put them in the Mid East culture group than the Mediterranean.
i'm sorry Chris, but that's the most rediculous comment I've heard yet about the Byzantines (and frankly, it's the only argument I've heard against them. No one can deny that Byzantium was one of the most powerful and influential civilizations in the Middle Ages).
Yes, their empire was part of Rome at one time. That's where the similarity ends, both in culture, and ethnicity. But if we were going strictly by ancestors, we'd have about 4 civs: Romans, Chinese, Babylonians, and Aztecs.
Anyway, It's a shame that even Ensemble Studios, the most historically inept company to ever make historical games, knew enough to inlcude the Byzantines. I realize that Firaxis is an American company, and that their basic thought is how Western Europe is so 'diverse', while Eastern Europe is suitable to be ignored.
Let's see here. Econonomic and Militaristic Powerhouse, probably more so than any other country in Europe in the middle ages. Single-handedly responsible for the propagandha and spreading of Christianity throughout Europe, leading to the some 1 billion followers today. Held their empire for over 1000 years, even after Rome was destroyed. Developed their own unique culture, a mix of European, Meditteranean, and Middle Eastern. Responsible for a great wonder called the Hagia Sophia, which I'm sure you civ fans heard of. And then of course, Constantinople, which remained the most populated city in the world well into the Industrial Age, and is still in the top 15 today as Istanbul.
But of course, all of this pales in comparison to the ground-breaking accomplishments of say, the Celts or Iroquis, or the all important Japanese civil wars and the Mongol Empire that lasted for a bit before destroying itself.
Anyway, it really infuriates me. Not that Byzantium isn't included, but the fact that western love-affairs take priority over civs that actually changed the world. And accomplished things. Which is why we have the aforementioned 4 civs, and a grossly over-represented Europe, while Byzantium, Thailand/Sium (SE Asia in general), and the Hebrews are ignored completely as they don't have movies being made about them, and aren't sending video games and cartoons to america.
GRR!
That makes absolutely no sense at all. Would you say that Americans are the same as English?
The Americans are a helluva a lot culturally similar to the English than the Byzantines are to the Romans 1000 years before.
The Byzantines and the Romans weren't even members of the same race. and if included in Civ 3, it'd be more realistic to put them in the Mid East culture group than the Mediterranean.
i'm sorry Chris, but that's the most rediculous comment I've heard yet about the Byzantines (and frankly, it's the only argument I've heard against them. No one can deny that Byzantium was one of the most powerful and influential civilizations in the Middle Ages).
Yes, their empire was part of Rome at one time. That's where the similarity ends, both in culture, and ethnicity. But if we were going strictly by ancestors, we'd have about 4 civs: Romans, Chinese, Babylonians, and Aztecs.
Anyway, It's a shame that even Ensemble Studios, the most historically inept company to ever make historical games, knew enough to inlcude the Byzantines. I realize that Firaxis is an American company, and that their basic thought is how Western Europe is so 'diverse', while Eastern Europe is suitable to be ignored.
Let's see here. Econonomic and Militaristic Powerhouse, probably more so than any other country in Europe in the middle ages. Single-handedly responsible for the propagandha and spreading of Christianity throughout Europe, leading to the some 1 billion followers today. Held their empire for over 1000 years, even after Rome was destroyed. Developed their own unique culture, a mix of European, Meditteranean, and Middle Eastern. Responsible for a great wonder called the Hagia Sophia, which I'm sure you civ fans heard of. And then of course, Constantinople, which remained the most populated city in the world well into the Industrial Age, and is still in the top 15 today as Istanbul.
But of course, all of this pales in comparison to the ground-breaking accomplishments of say, the Celts or Iroquis, or the all important Japanese civil wars and the Mongol Empire that lasted for a bit before destroying itself.
Anyway, it really infuriates me. Not that Byzantium isn't included, but the fact that western love-affairs take priority over civs that actually changed the world. And accomplished things. Which is why we have the aforementioned 4 civs, and a grossly over-represented Europe, while Byzantium, Thailand/Sium (SE Asia in general), and the Hebrews are ignored completely as they don't have movies being made about them, and aren't sending video games and cartoons to america.
GRR!
2) We are?
3) Byzantines, at best, were Romanized Greeks. Towards 1000, they were a multinational empire, of sorts, containing Serbs, some Arabs, and Bulgars among others.
4) If you want to go by most influential government, I can STILL say it was Roman because, simply, it was. Roman basis on everything.
5) It WAS the Roman empire! The Roman government did not die in the 400s, it died on a day in May in 1453.
6) Um...they kinda had to call Byzantines because it's the conventional name for the Roman empire of the period. Did you also know that their European neighbors called it the Greek Empire?
7) The culture didn't evolve slowly, it was changed by the various barbarian invasions the empire withstood. You do the Romans an injustice by taking a thousand years away from their durable government.
Were the Romans who adopted Greek gods not as Roman as the ancient city dwellers?
8) You're doing the Romans injustice when you claim that these accomplishments weren't their's. Roman knowhow, not Greek, built the Haiga Sophia.
9) The Byzantine powerbase was located in Europe...does that mean they shouldn't be included because of my supposed love affair?
The mythical Byzantines, better known as the Romans to themselves and the Greeks to Europe, are simply a continuation of the Roman state and the dominant Greco-Roman culture of the Mideast until the Arab invasions.
after all, the more the merrier
, maybe at one point the Romans and Greeks should lose some terrain , and instantly a new civ is born , ....
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