What the civ list should be

[dunk]

That's what I meant. I want to have an endless list of civs to choose from, not just 31.

I don't want to play a game with 200 civs, but just a big long list to choose from at the start of the game.

[Panag]

Originally posted by dunk999
That's what I meant. I want to have an endless list of civs to choose from, not just 31.

I don't want to play a game with 200 civs, but just a big long list to choose from at the start of the game.

hi ,

but that is not the problem , tha max you can play is 31 , to chose from , well , one can make as many has he or she wants , ...

have a nice day

[dunk]

I would like to see no hard-coded limits on how many civs can be selectable at one time. I know I'll be able to create a custom civ and place it one of 31 slots. I want more than 31 slots. I want to play a random game 15 times and not have the Romans in more than one of them. Without having to switch them in and out.

Just a wish.

[Gangerolf]

Re: What the civ list should be

Originally posted by Indignator
-Polish, Ukrainians or Hungarians (European)
The level with which Eastern Europe is being ignored is not even funny. Hey, we got Russia, so the rest doesn't matter. Well, we got China and Japan, so why should we add Korea?

I don't think Poland has been any more powerful than say, Sweden or Serbia have been. Its neighbour Lithuania, on the other hand, once ruled most of eastern Europe.
Ukraine is too tightly connected to Russia, hell, the Russian nation was founded in Kiev (by the Rus Vikings). And they were ruled by Russia for a long time.
Hungary on the peak of its power was no more than the lesser half of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

[Gangerolf]

-Celts
Yay, another European civ. No, I think the Vikings and Eastern Europe are much better candidates. Besides, the English are already here, so if the Celts make it, so should the Scottish and the Irish.

(Are you saying the English are Celtic? They're not.)
"Celts" are IMO to vague a name for a civ. It's like having a "Slav" or "Latin" civ. Eg. what should be the Celts' capital?

[Indignator]

I don't think Poland has been any more powerful than say, Sweden or Serbia have been.

Sweden was quite powerful in it's times, in fact the Swedes almost conquered Poland. And Serbia - I don't know much about them, but I think that it never was as strong as Poland or Sweden (I could be wrong though).

Its neighbour Lithuania, on the other hand, once ruled most of eastern Europe.

The Polish and Lithuanian nations have always been VERY close throughout history, both being ruled by the same monarch since the late 15th century. When 'Poland' was partitioned by the Russians, Prussians and Austrians, they in fact partictioned a Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth. In fact if the partitions didn't take place, today there would probably be no Poland or Lithuania, only a Polish-Lithuanian nation.

Ukraine is too tightly connected to Russia, hell, the Russian nation was founded in Kiev (by the Rus Vikings). And they were ruled by Russia for a long time.

Agree.

Hungary on the peak of its power was no more than the lesser half of the Austro-Hungarian Empire.

It is interesting that the Austro-Hungarians are also never mentioned as possible candidates for a civ.

Anyway, I decided that there are to many European Civs, and it wouldn't kill me if Firaxis skipped Eastern Europe. I was just pissed that CTP skipped it, even though it had like 50 civs.

[GeneralTacticus]

It is interesting that the Austro-Hungarians are also never mentioned as possible candidates for a civ.

That's because they were never really a people per se, they were just a collection of different areas ruled by the same dynasty.

[notyoueither]

GeneralTacticus.

Incorrect. They were the last heirs to the Roman Empire.

Mighty apt that they were just a collection of different areas ruled by the same dynasty

[GeneralTacticus]

Mighty apt that they were just a collection of different areas ruled by the same dynasty

Perhaps I should amend that to different peoples. Their empire consisted of (off the top of my head) Germans, Magyars, Poles, Romanians, Czechs, Slovaks, Italians, Serbs, Croats and Bosnians, very few of whom were particularly assimilated.

They were the last heirs to the Roman Empire.

The Holy Roman Empire, which AFAIK had very little if any to the original Roman Empire. You would have been closer if you said the Byzantines.

[dunk]

I hope some creative folks are working on creating new civs. I know about the "Extra Civ Pack", but I want more. Whoever you make, I'll download them and play as them at some point.

[civman2000]

Hebrews from the Euphrates to the Nile??????!!! WTF???????? When did they conquer Egypt, when did they conquer ANY of Mesopotamia? Tribes related to them may have done so collectively, but the Hebrew kingdom never got close!

[GeneralTacticus]

I was just stating what I had read somewhere, I wasn't sure if it was correct.

[Christantine The Great]

I'm sorry to disappoint all of you Byzantine enthusiasts here but:

The Byzantines were simply a continuation of Greco-Roman culture.

Althought the Romans of 1453 were VERY different from the Romans of 453, the fact remains:

They were Romans.

[Mikhail]

Originally posted by Christantine The Great
I'm sorry to disappoint all of you Byzantine enthusiasts here but:

The Byzantines were simply a continuation of Greco-Roman culture.

Althought the Romans of 1453 were VERY different from the Romans of 453, the fact remains:

They were Romans.

That makes absolutely no sense at all. Would you say that Americans are the same as English?

The Americans are a helluva a lot culturally similar to the English than the Byzantines are to the Romans 1000 years before.

The Byzantines and the Romans weren't even members of the same race. and if included in Civ 3, it'd be more realistic to put them in the Mid East culture group than the Mediterranean.

i'm sorry Chris, but that's the most rediculous comment I've heard yet about the Byzantines (and frankly, it's the only argument I've heard against them. No one can deny that Byzantium was one of the most powerful and influential civilizations in the Middle Ages).

Yes, their empire was part of Rome at one time. That's where the similarity ends, both in culture, and ethnicity. But if we were going strictly by ancestors, we'd have about 4 civs: Romans, Chinese, Babylonians, and Aztecs.

Anyway, It's a shame that even Ensemble Studios, the most historically inept company to ever make historical games, knew enough to inlcude the Byzantines. I realize that Firaxis is an American company, and that their basic thought is how Western Europe is so 'diverse', while Eastern Europe is suitable to be ignored.

Let's see here. Econonomic and Militaristic Powerhouse, probably more so than any other country in Europe in the middle ages. Single-handedly responsible for the propagandha and spreading of Christianity throughout Europe, leading to the some 1 billion followers today. Held their empire for over 1000 years, even after Rome was destroyed. Developed their own unique culture, a mix of European, Meditteranean, and Middle Eastern. Responsible for a great wonder called the Hagia Sophia, which I'm sure you civ fans heard of. And then of course, Constantinople, which remained the most populated city in the world well into the Industrial Age, and is still in the top 15 today as Istanbul.

But of course, all of this pales in comparison to the ground-breaking accomplishments of say, the Celts or Iroquis, or the all important Japanese civil wars and the Mongol Empire that lasted for a bit before destroying itself.

Anyway, it really infuriates me. Not that Byzantium isn't included, but the fact that western love-affairs take priority over civs that actually changed the world. And accomplished things. Which is why we have the aforementioned 4 civs, and a grossly over-represented Europe, while Byzantium, Thailand/Sium (SE Asia in general), and the Hebrews are ignored completely as they don't have movies being made about them, and aren't sending video games and cartoons to america.

GRR!

[Panag]

Originally posted by civman2000
Hebrews from the Euphrates to the Nile??????!!! WTF???????? When did they conquer Egypt, when did they conquer ANY of Mesopotamia? Tribes related to them may have done so collectively, but the Hebrew kingdom never got close!

hi ,

maybe not in terms of a military giant , but , definatly on terms of education , political systems and reforms , commerce and trade , ......

even today you can find jews in the entire middle east and north africa , .....

have a nice day