How Firaxis can fix the two Civ traits everyone hates- Expansionist and Commercial

[monkspider]

I was using your reasoning against you Lawrie.



You think we shouldn't change the traits because people just need to become creative enough to find ways to make expansionist and commerical better. You then were alarmed that expansionist might become too good. I then borrowed your reasoning and said people should just find creative ways to make the other civs just as good then.

All in good fun of course Lawrie.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Ahh i get it now
But Please, no Lawrie
Creativity is THE way to win. If everytime you play, you come up with a new trick, or a new way to twist something, then you are truly a good civ player (also an addict BTW )

[Pythagoras]

Well here's the proposals I thought were good from the earlier thread (for expansionist)

1) No map trading until navigation/education or something
2) settler/pioneer unit that is a settler w/ 2 moves and maybe 1 defence
3) Texas style emmigration that lets new citizens of a neighboring civs city potentially be of your nationality - causing increased strife against them during war and potential culture flip.

[dunk]

Why should they be "fixed"?

Think of Commercial as somewhat of a handicap. Before you move up to Monarch from Regent, play Regent as a commercial civ. It's like a quarter step harder to play as a commercial civ than any other civ.

[Stuie]

Originally posted by Pythagoras
Well here's the proposals I thought were good from the earlier thread (for expansionist)

1) No map trading until navigation/education or something

I've done this in my mod, delayed map trading (and communication) to Astronomy/Navigation. Makes it much more worthwhile to be an expansionist civ, able to make early contacts that others can't. Makes the whole early game have a much different (and very tasty flavor. And the nice thing is you can do this now, in the editor.

As for Commercial, I'm playing as the Romans lately and don't know what to do with all the extra gold. No changes needed.

[Imp. Montezuma]

Hey wake up, guys! It's just AI problem. For humans it's as well.
Again: It's ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE bug.

[Panag]

hi ,

there should be more civ specifies abilities , especially with more civs coming , ......

Firaxis , care to comment ; ......

have a nice day

[Spiffor]

Panag :
I think I remeber Jef saying it's on their "wishlist" : things they'll do if they have time. We absolutely don't know what precisely is on this wishlist, nor what is the priority order.
So a new trait is not impossible, but chances are low... I suspect there is still much work to do until September.

Jeff, care to tell us what's on your wishlist ?

[Panag]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Panag :
I think I remeber Jef saying it's on their "wishlist" : things they'll do if they have time. We absolutely don't know what precisely is on this wishlist, nor what is the priority order.
So a new trait is not impossible, but chances are low... I suspect there is still much work to do until September.

Jeff, care to tell us what's on your wishlist ?

hi ,

Jeff , put that list under a tree , ......who knows , ...

the bigger the list , the better , ...

have a nice day

[playshogi]

I agree with making marketplaces and banks cheaper and perhaps courthouses, for commercial. With expansionist, I think the scout should get to move 2 regardless of terrain. Also, how about letting expasionist cities expand at 8,80,800 etc. instead of 10,100,1000 etc.? Or,maybe 0, 100, 1000 that is every city founded immediately controls 21 squares.

[Lucilla]

Originally posted by playshogi
I agree with making marketplaces and banks cheaper and perhaps courthouses, for commercial. With expansionist, I think the scout should get to move 2 regardless of terrain. Also, how about letting expasionist cities expand at 8,80,800 etc. instead of 10,100,1000 etc.? Or,maybe 0, 100, 1000 that is every city founded immediately controls 21 squares.

Yes, marketplaces and banks should be cheaper, cheaper courthouses would be too much, IMO.
I'd prefer the 0, 100, 1000 option, because the 8, 80, 800 would be too powerful. It would also be then be a more cultural than expansionist trait, and expansion by culture is already represented by religious and scientific traits.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Lucilla


Yes, marketplaces and banks should be cheaper, cheaper courthouses would be too much, IMO.
I'd prefer the 0, 100, 1000 option, because the 8, 80, 800 would be too powerful. It would also be then be a more cultural than expansionist trait, and expansion by culture is already represented by religious and scientific traits.

hi ,

that can be done true the editor , .....

have a nice day

[Papa Lazarou]

im always the english so im hard done by (cruddy UU AND expan/comm). the way i get around this is to give all the expansionist civs a colonist unit instead of a settler with simply has a 2 movement rather than one. this means they can expand further, quicker. seems to work great!

[Jaguar]

How about this for expansionists? They can build galleys immediately! I don't think anything more is necessary.

Papa whateveritis also has a good idea.

Commercial is really weak. 50% markets and banks would make them fine.

[Ijuin]

I agree that Commercial civs would be appropriately strengthened by giving them half price Marketplaces/Banks.

As for Expansionist civs, I would give them a second special unit, the Coracle. This is like a Galley with no attack power (0.1.3, carry 2), and would upgrade to Caraval. The Coracle would be available from the start of the game, cost 30 shields, and travel over Coastal and Sea squares (sink in Ocean even WITH the Great Lighthouse).

Alternatively, the Expansionist civs could get half price Aqueducts and Hospitals, which would give them a benefit throughout the game instead of just during the Ancient Age.