Civ Traits for PTW Civs

[ydiiby]

Originally posted by civman2000
I did not mean to provoke a lot of discussion, just point a few things out. Cortes conquered the Aztecs and Pizarro conquered the Incas only bbecause of the diseases they brought. Unfortunately, I don't own Guns, Germs, and Steel so I can't find a quote, but expertise in military strategy or leadership abilities played little or no role in their successes. THis may not be exactly correct, but I think this is more or less the priorities of what let them conquer the areas:
1. Diseases
2. Help from natives that opposed the rulers (the Aztecs had many enemies and iirc Atahualpa had only just gained power after a civil war)
3. Psychological effects (including the Aztecs thinking the Spanish were gods)
4. (Aztecs only) Weak government structure; when the king was lost they collapsed.
5. Horses
6. Iron vs stone weapons
7. Guns
8. Other miscellaneous things, including Cortes's and Pizarro's leadership abilities.

You forgot "La Malinche" in this list.

Military abilities: Cortes and Pizarro conquered the Aztecs and the Incas. A military man must accomplish the mission that entrusts to him. Both did it.

Leadership abilities: Can somebody that does not have leadership to command to 500 soldiers to a mission against very superior forces in number in another unknown and hostile continent?

writing with the aid of babelfish

[Mikhail]

ydiiby: Which is exactly my (original) point. Spain didn't conquer them with large armies. But by superior technology.

"Scientific" would even be a more appropriate trait for spain, than Militaristic.

with the 3 civ trait in effect, they'd be: Religious, Expansionist, Scientific

England had a superior military to spain at the time, and have been in a ton of more wars throughout history, though they aren't considered militaristic by civ standards. why should spain be?

As for Cortez being a 'great leader', that comes down to opinion. A 'leader' isn't always 'great'. It depends on how you look at it. Not worth arguing about.

[Jon Shafer]

New civ traits is on Firaxis' wish list for things to come, but it's by no means definite. Hopefully they'll tell us more later.

[Jethro83]

Originally posted by Mikhail
"Scientific" would even be a more appropriate trait for spain, than Militaristic.

with the 3 civ trait in effect, they'd be: Religious, Expansionist, Scientific

How exactly could the Spanish be Scientific? The Inquisition hardly seemed like the brainchild of an intelligent, cultured ruling class. When Napoleon invaded Spain, the place was still pretty much in the dark age, while the rest of Europe was much further ahead, around the Industrial age.

England had a superior military to spain at the time, and have been in a ton of more wars throughout history, though they aren't considered militaristic by civ standards. why should spain be?

If each civ had 3 traits, I'd give the English Militaristic.

As for Cortez being a 'great leader', that comes down to opinion. A 'leader' isn't always 'great'. It depends on how you look at it. Not worth arguing about.

True. I think of him as a great leader because he realised the horrid truth about warfare: People fight harder if their lives depend on it (as such he burnt his ships, so that the only way he and his men could stop themselves from starving was to conquer the natives. The fact that they didn't behead him there and then shows that he held strong influence over his men). But that's just my opinion. If others agree, then that's fine. No big deal if there are those who disagree.

[civman2000]

Yes he showed leadership abilities, but were those greater than any other significant generals that were not included in GL lists of other civs (sorry can't name any examples but just pointing out that not everyone with leadership abilities whose army had a significant impact on the world is a great leader)

[Panag]

hi ,

there should be more civ specific Qualities , .....

have a nice day

[Dinner]

I'd be against adding more CSAs unless the old civs were rebalanced in order to let them take advantage of the new traits as well. Note that changing the traits will also lead to the necisity of rebalancing the UUs as well as updating each civ's AI in oder to take advantage of it's new traits. That sounds like a lot of work for very little pay off.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I'd be against adding more CSAs unless the old civs were rebalanced in order to let them take advantage of the new traits as well. Note that changing the traits will also lead to the necisity of rebalancing the UUs as well as updating each civ's AI in oder to take advantage of it's new traits. That sounds like a lot of work for very little pay off.

hi ,

hmmm , but one would have the option to turn it on or off , .....all you have to do is "flag" them yes or no , ....

have a nice day

[Spiffor]

Oerdin :
I disagree with you. It's most likely that, if they include a new CSA, it will be the "maritime" one, who had much fan support. The only existing Civ who'll get this trait are the British, who already have a specific (backstabbing) AI, and a maritime UU.

The old traits won't have to be balanced with the new trait(s)... At the contrary, the new traits will have to be thought not to unbalance the game. Think of Diablo2Expansion : the 2 new character classes were as powerful as the 5 old ones, but it didn't take a major overhaul to make it.

[The Bloody Baro]

For Carthage[with the ablities that are known to us right now] Commercial and Relgious. I read a book on Carthage and every so often[can't remember the intervel] They would take 1 baby frome every city in the empire until they reached 100 and throw them into the fire to please their gods. Commercail, well they did fight rome 3 times so they could have the Meditterean shipping lanes.

[Panag]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Oerdin :
I disagree with you. It's most likely that, if they include a new CSA, it will be the "maritime" one, who had much fan support. The only existing Civ who'll get this trait are the British, who already have a specific (backstabbing) AI, and a maritime UU.

The old traits won't have to be balanced with the new trait(s)... At the contrary, the new traits will have to be thought not to unbalance the game. Think of Diablo2Expansion : the 2 new character classes were as powerful as the 5 old ones, but it didn't take a major overhaul to make it.

hi ,

one CSA is a start , there is room for ten in total at least , ....

they should put 4 more in , ....

have a nice day

[tomcat ha]

Arabs shoud be also Scientific
Osmanle that`s how we turks prononce ottoman empire
shoud be scientific,expansionist/militraistic/religous