Who should be the leader of the Celts?

[monkspider]

..and yes, I said the Celts (Gauls?...shudder). To me Brennus seems like a questionable choice, he did sack rome in 390 BC if I recall, but who beyond the most-historically inclined will be famillar with him.
I think King Arthur would be fun, but Vercingetorix may actually be most approiate. Though Boadicea would be a good choice for a fun (and potentially cute ) leader.
In the end though, my vote goes to the man with the unpronouncable name, Mr. V.

[Mr. President]

I voted for Vercingetorix. Much as I love Arthur, I think it would be too hard for people to associate him with non-Christian or non-specifically-Christian Celtica.

[Deornwulf]

Lady Grania, the warrior pirate queen

[Dinner]

I've always liked Boadicea. Plus I hope Firaxis would have enough sense to make it the Celtic civ and not the Gauls (who were just one of the many Celtic tribes).

Then again I also thought Firaxis would have been able to figure out the difference between being British and English...

[Carver]

other

How about the girls from the group "The Coors"? They're Celtic aren't they? I don't know about leadership skills, but I wouldn't mind looking at them in the diplo window.

[Adagio]

Where's the "The Celts shouldn't be in the game in the first place" option?

[Flandrien]

Vercingetorix was the leader of the Gauls, not the Celts.

What about king Aengus ?



Edit: maybe the Gauls were part of the Celts, I have to check my encyclopedia for that.

[monkspider]

They were Maestro, the Gauls were essentially one of the Celtic tribes.

[Jay Bee]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I've always liked Boadicea. Plus I hope Firaxis would have enough sense to make it the Celtic civ and not the Gauls (who were just one of the many Celtic tribes).

Yep, that's what I must point out that the poll misses one of the greatest Celtic leaders, Viriatus, chief of the Lusitanians.

Then again I also thought Firaxis would have been able to figure out the difference between being British and English...

He he, true. To make them look a bit worse they also don't seem to grasp the difference between being Castilian and Spanish. Queen Isabella was as Spanish as Elizabeth I was British.

(EDIT: forgot the 'don't' in the last sentence )

[Spiffor]

Actually, the Gauls weren't one tribe, but the bunch of Celtic tribes who lived on the current French + Belgian territory. They didn't identify themselves as Gauls, Romans did.
Rome conquered Gaul pretty easily because of the tribe rivalries, and had difficulties only when Vercingetorix united these tribes to fight the conqueror. No doubt the alliance would have broken if Vercingetorix had won.

[Dinner]

Repost of Celtic info

I'm reposting some old info about the Celts that I had written several months ago on the Civ3:civilizations forum. Hopefully it will help add to everyones understanding of the Celts; to read the whole thread go to http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=29913
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Historical Significance: A widely spread cultural group that dominated Europe from 500B.C. to 200A.D.; Celtic artifacts have been found in Asia Minor and as far away as the Tarim basin, Xinjiang provience, China.

Description:
CELTS:- An ancient people who dominated much of Western , Central , Eastern Europe and Asia Minor in the 1st millennium bc, giving their language, customs, and religion to the other peoples of that area.
History:- The earliest found archaeological evidence associated with the Celts places them in what is now France and western Germany in the late Bronze Age around 1200 bc. In the early Iron Age, they are associated with the Halstatt culture (8th-6th cent. bc) named for an archaeological site in Upper Austria. They probably began to settle in the British Isles during this period. Between the 5th and 1st centuries bc , their influence extended from what is now Spain , the islands of the British Isles to the shores of the Black Sea , from the Ukraine to Turkey. This huge land/cultural region ( never an 'Empire') encompassing the areas mentioned influenced much of the continent of Europe and was greater in size then modern European Russia. Despite the shared religion/language and culture this large area was never politically united , finding only brief periods of unity when threatened by common foes. The later Iron Age phase of Celtic Culture is called La Tene, after a site in Switzerland and dates from the previously mentioned 5th to 1st centuries bc. Evidence from this period suggests that the Celts were the first peoples of Europe to actively use and work with iron. The word Celt is derived from Keltoi, the name given to these people by Herodotus and other Greek writers. To the Romans, the Continental Celts were known as Galli, or Gauls; those in Britain were called Britanni. In the 4th century bc the Celts invaded the Greco-Roman world, conquering northern Italy and sacking Rome, whilst also conquering Macedonia and Thessaly. They plundered Rome in 390, sacked Delphi in 279, and penetrated Asia Minor, where they were known as Galatians. The "Cisalpine Gauls" of northern Italy were conquered by the Romans in the 2nd century bc .Transalpine Gaul (modern France and the Rhineland) was subdued by Julius Caesar in the 1st century bc. and most of Britain came under Roman rule in the 1st century ad. In the same period. the Celts of central Europe being fragmented came under the domination by the Germanic peoples. In medieval and modern times the Celtic tradition and languages survived in Brittany ( Western France), Cornwall, Galicia ( North Western Spain) , Galatia ( Central Turkey), Wales, the Scottish Highlands, Isle of Man and Ireland, and to a lesser extent in the Norse/Celtic culture of Iceland.

Way of Life:- The various Celtic tribes were bound together by common speech, customs, and religion, rather than by any well defined central governments. There government was through the use of a feudal system with each tribe being headed by a king/chief and was divided by class into Druids (priests), warrior nobles, and commoners/freemen and slaves . Politically there was a great degree of democracy within the society with both men and women being treated equally and all important decisions being made at tribal gatherings in which women had an equal voice. Rulers were subject to removal at these gathering if found unsatisfactory or incompetent and succession was not necessarily hereditary. The absence of any large scale political unity amongst the tribes contributed substantially to the extinction of their way of life, making them vulnerable to their enemies. Their economy was pastoral and agricultural and they had no real urban life however trade played a large part in there economy . The nobles fought on foot with swords and spears and were fond of feasting and drinking. Celtic mythology, which included earth gods, various woodland spirits, and sun deities, was particularly rich in elfin demons and tutelaries, beings that still pervade the lore of peoples of Celtic ancestry.
Celtic Christianity:- The Christian faith was well established in Celtic Britain by the 4th century ad, but in the 5th century the Saxons and other Germanic peoples invaded the country, driving most of the Celtic Christians into Wales and Cornwall. At the same time. St. Patrick and other British missionaries founded a new church in Ireland, which then became the centre of Celtic Christianity. The Irish church developed a distinctive organization in which bishops were subordinate to the abbots of monasteries .The Irish monks, devoted to learning as well as religion, did much to preserve a knowledge of ancient Roman literature in early medieval Europe. Between the late 6th and the early 8th centuries, Irish missionaries were active in Christianizing the Germanic peoples that had conquered the Western Roman Empire, and they founded numerous monasteries in present-day France, Germany, Switzerland , and Italy. Celtic Christianity in Ireland was weakened by the Viking invasions of the 9th and 10th centuries, and by the 12th century its characteristic institutions, which were incompatible with those of the dominant Roman church, had largely disappeared from Europe.

Art:- Celtic art is considered the first great contribution to European art made by non Mediterranean peoples. Its roots go back to the artisans of the Urnfield culture and the Hallstatt culture (8th-6th cent. bc) at the beginning of the Iron Age. It flowered in the period of the La Tene culture. Although Celtic art was influenced by ancient Persian, Greek, Etruscan, and Roman art and by that of the nomads of the Eurasian steppes it developed distinctive characteristics. These are evident in its major artefacts-weapons, vessels, and jewelry in bronze, gold, electrum and occasionally silver. Many of these objects were made for chieftains in southern Germany and France and were recovered from their tombs. The Celtic style is marked by a preference for stylised plant motifs, usually of Greek origin, and fantastic animals, derived from the Scythians and other steppe peoples; however the human figure tended to play a secondary role. Other favourite motifs are elliptical curves and opposing curves. spirals, and chevrons, also derived from steppe art. These elements were combined in dynamic yet balanced, intricate geometrical patterns carried out in relief engraving, or red, yellow, blue, and green champleve enamel on shields, swords, sheaths, helmets, bowls, and jewelry. They also appeared on painted pottery cinerary urns, food vessels, incense bowls, and drinking cups. Examples of Celtic art include torcs, or neck rings, with the two open ends ornamented with animal heads, the silver repousse Cundestorp cauldron (c. 400 bc . National Museum, Copenhagen), a bronze lozenge-shaped shield with circular medallions and small enamel circles (1st cent. bc - 1st cent. ad ), and a bronze mirror with enamelled decoration (1st cent. bc) (both British Museum. London). Also surviving are roughly carved stone monuments and wooden objects. During the period of Roman domination of Western Europe in and after the 1st century bc the art of Celtic peoples on the Continent gradually lost its distinctive style. The Celts of Ireland continued to work with traditional motifs but as Christianity took hold, they combined them with Christian motifs and employed their skills in the service of the church.

Celts Today:- Today the people who call themselves Celts or still strongly identify with there celtic history can be found in the following areas:- Brittany France, Cornwall, Galicia Spain, Galatia Turkey, Ireland, Isle of Man, Scotland and Wales. All these areas have strong Celtic elements to there culture with some of them still speaking Celtic Languages whilst others though not speaking a Celtic language have strong Celtic cultural rootes. The modern Celts have a varied and rich history and have influenced many of the worlds current great nations with their pioneering spirit and love of adventure helping to found some of the worlds most progressive and greatest nations.

[Dinner]

Map of Celtic Europe 400B.C.

Here's a map of the areas where Celts were the dominant social group at 400 B.C.

[Spiffor]

Thanks Oerdin for the info !
Btw, as most leaders had an impact on the unity of their country (Joan of Arc, Bismarck, Lincoln, Ghengis etc.), I think Vercingetorix should be the guy, as the only valid attempt to unite Celt tribes, at least in Gaul. If they indeed put Brennus in, I'm sure to rename him Vercingetorix as soon as possible.

[Dinner]

I agree Vercingetrix would probably be the best choice but I still like the idea of having a female in charge. After all Celts weren't a male dominated society, unlike, the rest of the world. Women could become rulers, high priestesses, own property, and speak at the war councils. What other people treated women with such equality?

[Dinner]

Here's a new question. What should the Celt's CSAs and UU be? We know the UU will be a swordsman but what will make it special?

Since Celts were the first people in Europe to work with Iron I suggest we let the Celts build their unique swordsmen without having an Iron resource. Since Celtic druids & priests played such a pivitial role in their society I suggest they should be religious & since we also know that the Celts started the first large scale trade networks in Europe their other CSA should be commercial. What do you guys think?