Who should be the leader of the Celts?

[Spiffor]

Religious : definitely, as the Druids had an immense religious and political power, and were the scientific nomeklatura of the Celts.
Don't know for the second trait though. Sure, they had roads, but maybe that qualifies them for being "industrious" ? Also, they lived in villages, or small towns at most (nothing compared to Rome or Athens), so "expansionist" could fit, as they needed much space.

[Kingof the Apes]

Militant, maybe? You always hear about the 'feirce Celtic warriors'.

[Imp. Montezuma]

Re: Map of Celtic Europe 400B.C.

Originally posted by Oerdin
Here's a map of the areas where Celts were the dominant social group at 400 B.C.

Your map are ridiculeus! Celts live almost all steppes in Northern Pont (Ukraine) and Northern Caucasus?! Where Scyths, Sarmats, and others? It's kind of dream. Back to science, please!

Of course, if Gauls in Game then ruler should be Vercingetorix.

[Dinner]

Re: Re: Map of Celtic Europe 400B.C.

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
Your map are ridiculeus! Celts live almost all steppes in Northern Pont (Ukraine) and Northern Caucasus?! Where Scyths, Sarmats, and others? It's kind of dream. Back to science, please!

Of course, if Gauls in Game then ruler should be Vercingetorix.

If you note it shows the areas where Celts were the largest group; this doesn't mean they were the only group. Look around the web and you will find many similiar maps. Plus if you have the National Geographic CD-Rom you can also find maps & stories about the Celts that colaborate...

Also the Caucasuses are to the south and east of where the eastern edge of Celtic Civilization. The map doesn't show Celtic people living in the Caucasuses.

[Imp. Montezuma]

Ancient Keltia

http://www.users.bigpond.com/troy-kim/celts.html

[Imp. Montezuma]

"Vercingetorix" by Napoleon III

"Vercingetorix". Statue in Alesia.

[Thrawn05]

Since my choice would never be accepted, I chosed other. I don't care who gets it... because I'm going to change it to St. Patrick as soon as I get PtW.

[Dinner]

Montezuma: I found my map on the internet just like you did and it seems they are 90% the same. So there is only 10% disagreement.

Everyone: I found an article on National Geographics website that says the holiday of Holloween was originally a Celtic holiday. To read the whole article. http://www.nationalgeographic.com/ph...ogh/index.html

Here is a sample: Originally celebrated by Celtic people over 2,000 years ago, Halloween was a time that marked the end of their calendar year, the end of the harvest, and the coming of winter. The Celts began the celebration on the night of October 31 with masked parades, bonfires, and religious rituals.

[Dinner]

Celtic Alphabet

Here's some info about Ogham the unique alphabet developed by the Celts. For more info follow the link http://www.crystalinks.com/celts.html
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The ancient Celts had a form of writing called ogham (pronounced OH-yam). It was the writing of Druids and Bards. Ogham is also called 'Tree Alphabet' because each letter corresponds to a tree and an associated meaning. The letters were, in fact, engraved onto sticks as well as larger standing stones.

In keeping with Druidic concepts, each of the Ogham's twenty letters bears the name of a tree. A-Ailim (Elm), B-Bithe (Birch), C-Coll (Hazel), for example. The Celts had an oral tradition so it was not used to write stories or history as these were memorized.

The Ogham alphabet contains twenty letters and is read from the bottom up. The letters are constructed using a combination of lines placed adjacent to or crossing a midline. An individual letter may contain from one to five vertical or angled strokes. Vowels were sometimes described as a combination of dots. The midline was, most often, the edge of the object on which the inscription was carved.

Ogham was named after the Celtic god of literature, Ogma. It was used on the edges of burial stones and boundary markers. They usually held the name of a person. Examples exist to this day.

It was also used on rods or strips of wood that were fastened together at one end. These wands were opened and closed to present stories or poems.

Since these wands were made of wood, none survive today. Only the messages on stone survived.

The wooden sticks with the Ogham marking were used for divination similar to the way Runes were used by Norse peoples. Only the Druids and Bards understood the system and could have great influences on their people when they demonstrated its power.

There are 369 verified examples of Ogham writing surviving today. These exist in the form of standing stones concentrated in Ireland, but scattered across Scotland, the Isle of Man, South Wales, Devonshire, and as far afield as Silchester (the ancient Roman city of Calleva Attrebatum).

Similiar markings have been found on standing stones in Spain and Portugal. The markings in Spain are believed to be much older than the ones in Ireland, perhaps dating from 800 BC. It is from this area of the Iberian Peninsula that the Celts who colonized the British Isles may have come.

Ogam can still be seen inscribed on hundreds of large and small stones, on the walls of some caves, but also on bone, ivory, bronze and silver objects. The Ogam script was especially well adapted for use on sticks. Sticks are part of the Basque word for "alphabet": agaka, agglutinated from aga-aka, aga (stick or pole) and akats (notch). The meaning of the word agaka therefore isn't so much "alphabet" as "writing", a stick with Ogam notches conveying a message. The name Ogam likely comes from oga-ama, ogasun (property, wealth) ama (Priestess, mother) property of the Priestess, which indicates that the script was originally designed for use by the clergy of the pre-Christian religion.

Ogam was adopted and further developed by the first monks in Ireland. Our earliest information indicates that they were not sure as to where Ogam came from. According to the "Auraicept" the origin of Irish and Ogam must be sought in the Near East: "In Dacia it was invented, though others say it was in the Plain of Shinar" (line 1105-06). A "made in Ireland" version is recorded in "In Lebor Ogaim" in which the inventor is "Ogma mac Elathan who is said to have been skilled in speech and poetry and to have created the system as proof of his intellectual ability and with the intention that it should be the preserve of the learned, to the exclusion of rustics and fools" ( McManus 8.4).

The script was used by the monks as a monument script between 450 and 800 A.D. and they used it for literary purposes between 650 and 900 A.D. Every time the script was inscribed in stone it must have been used thousands of times on sticks, for which medium the script was obviously designed. Over 500 Ogam inscriptions are known from Ireland (collected by R.A.S. Macalister), some 40 from Scotland ( A. Jackson) and a growing number from the east coast of North America.

The fact that not a single one has been successfully translated is not so much the fault of the monks who wrote the texts, as of our linguists, all of whom assumed that the language of the script was Gaelic. However, this assumption appears to be without foundation, because the syntax of the Gaelic language in no way lends itself to be written in traditional Ogam.

[Dinner]

Here is a gif file illistraiting Ogham

[Imp. Montezuma]

Oerdin, what about using Oghama by Pict tribes befoe Celts?
And misterious Slavic 'cherty i rezy' scratching-and-cutting?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Imp. Montezuma
Oerdin, what about using Oghama by Pict tribes befoe Celts?
And misterious Slavic 'cherty i rezy' scratching-and-cutting?

I haven't seen or heard any reputable Universities publish anything about Picts using Ogham. However, I'd be interested in hearing about it if you could tell me.
The Picts of Scotland are a very poorly understood group of people. Scientists actually know very little about them. There are three popular theories about the origins of the Picts: 1) They were a Celt group; this is reasoned because everyone else around them were Celts. 2) They were a nonindo-European group related to Basques; what little we know about Picts does show significant differences from near by Celtic tribes. Therefor, proponents of this theory believe Picts were remients of the pre-indo-European population (like Basques are). 3)Picts are related to Scathians; this is the least likely and is based upon the writtings of several Romans who said Picts commonly tatooed their bodies. Since Scathians also tatooed themselves maybe the two groups are related.
Of the three theories most scientists who study the Picts go with either #1 or #2. The truth is we have to little archilogical evidience to prove either one.

[Dinner]

What CSAs and UU do you folks think the Celts should have?

[Apocalypse]

I like Vercingetorix. I read some Latin stuff Ceasar wrote about him. Seems like a stand up kinda guy. There is also a robot named after him. On top of all that, Vercingetorix is a badass name.

[History Guy]

What's so unpronouncable about Vercingetorix?

Actually, old Vercing' would be a good choice, I think. Boudicca also, though she's a great leader for England in Civ3. Of course, Genghis and Kublai are great Chinese leaders as well.

As for both maps, they neglect that the Celts settled Denmark.