Strat Forum PBEM: Game 4 - Thread II

[Harovan]

We have AIs in the "original" GS PBEM. They do no good. Whoring around techs and maps doesn't help to increase the fun, at the countrary.

[alexman]

All of Sir Ralph's suggestions sound great. Even the no AU mod one. However, I wouldn't be against some other modifications to address some MP issues. For example:

• Are we going to do anything about the reduced war weariness in MP? Perhaps an increase in unit support for Monarchy?
• Can we weaken the industrious trait so people pick something else besides industrious civs? We could take advantage of worker turns being rounded up, or we could make industrious workers more expensive.
• I would really like to see bombard units being used more against cities. With no AI, we could make it so such units are not only useful in the open. A nice solution would be to reduce the defensive strength of citizens and improvements, so that even Catapults have a good chance of doing some damage.
• With no AI we can do other cool things like making tanks wheeled, AEGIS and subs carry missiles, and colisseums increase the effect of luxury spending.
• There are some elements of the AU mod that I wouldn't mind keeping: Corruption-reducing building for Communism, increased infantry attack, zero-range bombard, ship upgrade chains and movement, and Longevity with Sanitation, for example.

Or I am fine with stock rules too.

Now we just have to get a 5th player and someone to make the map.

P.S. AP is not my cup of tea either, but DaveMcW has a mod that fixes everything except the slower movement of units compared to tech rate.

[Dominae]

Let's start another one. Sir Ralphs' suggestions make sense to me too. We need a 5th (and maybe 6th).

Of the changes you mentioned, alexman, I like tinkering with the Industrious trait the most. How about making Industrious civs only start out with one tech? We take away Masonry from all of them, or pick and choose among the 2 possibilities just to add some flavor.


Dominae

[jshelr]

Turn civ specific abilities off??

[alexman]

Civ-specific abilities turns off the UU as well, doesn't it? And you get a GA with any Wonder?

I like Dominae's solution a lot, but it might not be enough. How about we also reduce the turns required for worker jobs as like this:

Mine: 12 to 9
Mining plains would be unchanged for industrious civs (3), but reduced from 6 to 5 for non-industrious. Mining hills would be reduced from 6 to 5 for industrious, and from 12 to 9 for non-industrious.

Irrigate: 8 to 6
Unchanged for industrious civs (2), but reduced from 4 to 3 for non-industrious.

Clear forest: 10 to 9
Unchanged for industrious civs (5), but reduced from 10 to 9 for non-industrious.

All the rest of the worker jobs unchanged.

[Harovan]

I'm sorry, but I'm against distorting the game rules too much. As it stands, the traits are more or less balanced. PBEM games are a big investment in time and certainly not a playground for tests. Plus, everyone of us has his own algorithms and standard habits with workers. It would annoy the hell out of me, if my workers would behave differently, just because we changed the rules for this one game.

If we do anything at all, it should be fixing the expansionist trait. It's mostly about early settlers, meaning its advantage heavily depends on luck. You have luck (settler in the early 3000's), you be the king of the game. You don't have luck, you remain with a completely useless trait and thus have a disadvantage.

I like the other ideas, although I doubt that this game ever will see the late industrial age (tanks wheeled), not to talk about the modern (AEGIS, missile carying nuclear subs). The latter btw would be near to useless on a pangea, wouldn't they?

My vote goes towards an unmodded game.

[alexman]

I think expansionist is fine as the gambler's trait. Industrious, OTOH is the opposite: a conservative trait that does well no matter what.

So my vote is now for unmodded, but with Dominae's suggestion of removing Masonry from Industrious civs.

Any ideas of who might want to make a map for us?

[Dominae]

alexman's idea is a good one, but I agree that an unmodded game would probably be best.

The luck factor inherent in the Expansionist trait is fine, IMO; by picking Expansionist, you're gambling for a free Settler. Plus, it's not like the Expansionist trait is completely useless without this bonus (free techs for trading, better scouting, etc.). Anyway, this is leading to a trait debate, so let' just leave things unmodded.

Should we announce the game and ask for a volunteer, or should we approach players whom we know will play their turns regularly?


Dominae

[Dominae]

I still like the idea of removing Masonry from Industrious civs, mind you...it would would remove the guilt I feel if I were to pick and Industrious civ this time around (which I made a point of not doing last time).

jshelr, Sir Ralph?


Dominae

[Harovan]

Ok with me, although I will pick industrious this time, though. Last time I was rel/exp.

About the 5th or 6th player: What about approaching DaveMcW and Nor Me?

[alexman]

Nor Me and DaveMcW are good choices.
I would say if one of them doesn't accept, let's leave it at five players, small/80% or tiny/60% map. If both of them accept, small/70% map.

I'm wondering if someone from GS would want to make the map for us. How about notyoueither?

[Harovan]

Alex (or any of the others), would you be willing to replace GhengisFarb for 1-3 weeks in the Naval PBEM, beginning with May 19th? I'd like like to keep this game going in his absence, it's one of my favorites.

Volunteers apply here: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...threadid=85705

[alexman]

I can't, because I made the map, remember?

Sir Ralph, if you like that game, I see why you don't like the increased corruption of small maps and the AU-mod Republic.

[Harovan]

Well, alex, it doesn't really matter that you made the map. We're around 2000BC, everyone should have explored his home island but nothing else yet. And Ghengis won't be away for long, anyway.

I don't have anything against the standard corruption on any map size. But I consider it high enough and don't consider it fun to hurt the means of fighting it (like playing around with the OCN or devaluating the Republic).

[DaveMcW]

I'd be happy to join.

I'm leaning towards unmodded as well. AP would make the endgame more interesting, but it looks like you guys prefer to fight in the ancient age and call it quits when you reach industrial age.

Maybe you can increase the expansionist gamble by making barbs random.