One-Armed Bandits

[Jon Shafer]

1) I agree to the list, though, again, I would prefer if chaining wasn't allowed...

2) Sure

3) 2.5

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Rommel2d
1-2 Players shall not exchange in-game information until they are represented on each other's foreign advisor's screen. They shall not exchange graphic map information before both have knowledge of Navigation.
a) In diplomacy without an embassy between the Tribes, a player may only offer technology already known by their Tribe. They may not offer or ask for unknown techs.
b) Players shall not coordinate military action unless an alliance is formally declared in the foreign advisor's screen.
c) Players shall not make reference to specific distances or directions until both have knowledge of Map Making.
d) Players shall not make Mutual Protection Pacts or Trade Embargoes unless they are declared in the foreign advisor's screen.

a) no
b) yes
c) no
d) yes

Level 2 or 2.5 is fine.

(Yes, i realize this is the opposite of moonbars ^^)

[Moonbars]

haha, we are quite evenly divided

If theseus is happy I will move to 2.5 combat reporting.

I have no problem with outlawing ship chaining.

Not so happy to move on the other options.

[Jon Shafer]

I don't think it's ever been a surprise that I don't like chaining - it's completely unrealistic and I personally think that it hurts gameplay. Yeah, infinite RRs are the same way, I wish they didn't work that way also...

[snoopy369]

Basically the reason i split A/C and B/D are because A/C are "strategy limiters" while B/D are "openness requirements". IE, A/C are limiting what we can or cannot do as a diplomatic tactic or strategy, while B/D are more specifically requiring open disclosure of alliances and pacts (admittedly a particular strategy, ie secret pacts, is limited here, but it's more specific).

In Iron Civ games i'm happy to go with A/C but in more "for fun" games i'm not really interested in limiting my options to discuss techs and/or maps with other people. I see it as basically making diplomacy less useful, which is the point of MP to me.

B/D, on the other hand, is important to me, because they require open disclosure of pacts etc. I certainly don't mind making deals behind closed doors, but I think that alliances or their equivalents that are advanced to the point of tactical discussion would be discovered by espionage in the real world, and thus should be in the open. Trade sanctions, I feel likewise, both in that they would be discovered in the real world quite quickly, and 'secret' deals to not trade with someone is not beneficial to the balance of the game -- if i'm being screwed by the rest of you, I want to know it.

Now, the interesting question to me is -- what about alliances etc. before they're in the diplo screen? I'm certainly for allowing them -- as long as they are declared in the thread... perhaps that's what you meant, Moonbars?

[Theseus]

Revised:

2) Yes, across the board
3) 2.5

[Rommel2D]

The reference to the foreign advisor screen is there to indicate certain conditions in the game's mechanics must be met. Players must show up on another's advisor screen before any communication takes place; they must have an embassy and declare an alliance to coordinate combat (so that citizen moods and war weariness are accurately reflected); and they must formally declare MPPs and Trade Embargoes for similar reasons (mood, WW, +the affect on trade networks of 3rd parties).

All four options are meant to be accepted or declined as a whole cloth for simplicity. I'd hope we can improve the quality of play without pulling out the line item veto, turning this into a congressional lawmaking session sim...

As for chaining- it hasn't come up in anything I've been involved with yet, although it might here with continents. RR movement is weak and chaining is almost the naval equivalent, but I think half of a fix is worse than no fix in this case. How specifically would a ban be implemented anyway? No transfer of units at sea, or only if they awake and move under their own power?

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Now, the interesting question to me is -- what about alliances etc. before they're in the diplo screen? I'm certainly for allowing them -- as long as they are declared in the thread... perhaps that's what you meant, Moonbars?

To be precise, generally cooperating with another player isn't the same as an alliance. An alliance is a specific diplomatic state involving war with a third party. Since the game mechanics affect citizens moods when at war, such alliances should not be formed without an in-game declaration, if the options are included.

This is a good point about the A/C and B/D groupings. Perhaps A and C should be made part of the 'mandatory' etiquette since they directly affect the mechanics, and only B/D should be optional? (Sorry if that works against your preferences, snoop. ) I'll bring it up in the IC thread when I have the time.

One thing that could probably use some clarification: Trade embargoes are only concerned with resources- exchanging money and technology are not considered "trade" in CivlizationIII.

[Rommel2D]

4000 to Trip...

And all you poor doomed souls that don't recognize the power and majesty of the Ag trait should contemplate a restart before passing your first turn along...

[Moonbars]

ag trait be damned. A win with a Ag tribe is no win at all Bring it on 2Dman!

I actually agree with snoopy here, I also want openness, the reason I oppose B/D as they restrict your diplomacy until the industrial age, and the game is won by then.. If we instead had to declare such alliances in This thread, then that's fine with me - that is indeed what I meant. Also, we could make it a requirement that if two parties declare war on a third in the thread, they also have to declare on that party in the game - no possibility for one of the aggressors to sit at peace and research, whilst the other barracks and troops up..

[Theseus]

Re: 4000 to Trip...

Originally posted by Rommel2D
And all you poor doomed souls that don't recognize the power and majesty of the Ag trait should contemplate a restart before passing your first turn along...

Food shall be your undoing.

[self biased]

something tells me i'm going to be completely out of my league. oh well. damn the torpedoes.

[self biased]

also, level two combat reporting sould be sufficent.

[Jon Shafer]

4000 BC sent to Moonbars.

Good luck all.

But not too much.

[Moonbars]

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