One-Armed Bandits

[snoopy369]

Oh, and the turn was processed.

[Theseus]

Turn sent

[Jon Shafer]

Originally posted by Rommel2D
Ok, somebody once told me that the goto command could only be used as an exploit by the last person due to a fluke of turn mechanisms, not just player order, but I can't track it down in a thread. I figured it was our resident demo gaming expert- Trip, do you have any more references on this?

Snoopy is correct.

All goto moves are processed after everyone's turns. This effectively gives the last player a free move since all units on goto will move twice (the turn the move is assigned, then "in between" turns), which is obviously an unfair advantage.

I use g and j all the time, but I'm careful only to have the moves take place in a single turn. Of course, I'm rarely last so it doesn't really matter anyways.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Trip

Snoopy is correct.

All goto moves are processed after everyone's turns. This effectively gives the last player a free move since all units on goto will move twice (the turn the move is assigned, then "in between" turns), which is obviously an unfair advantage.

I use g and j all the time, but I'm careful only to have the moves take place in a single turn. Of course, I'm rarely last so it doesn't really matter anyways.

Imagine the following situation:

Player 1 and player 3 are in a war (4 player game), and player 2 and 4 are in a war. Now, it's agreed that if player 4 has a spearman 2 tiles away (not roaded) from an undefended city under attack, and uses "goto" to move the spearman to the city under siege, he is 'cheating', essentially, because the spearman will arrive prior to Player 2 being allowed to move his piece into the undefended city.

Now, imagine if Player 3 does the same thing. Undefended city with Player 1's units outside of it, moves a spearman using 'Goto' to the city. His spearman will also get there first -- one move takes the spearman to just outside the city (on his turn), and the second move (in between turns) takes the spearman inside the city.

My point is that not only the last player needs to be cautious using goto over distances, but any player other than the first needs to consider the implications of such a move.

Goto and other forms of long-term automation (ctrl-r for example) are fairly important in PBEMs, and to categorically eliminate the possibility of this abuse (accidental or otherwise) you'd basically have to remove Goto from use altogether (except by the first player, perhaps, but that would be an unfair advantage). I feel that you should use a method that warns the player not to use it when it makes a strategic difference, and leave open the possibility of requiring a player to replay a turn if it ends up changing things.

[Jon Shafer]

That's right.

Been a while since I've been over all of this. Hope it's addressed in CIV.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Trip
That's right.

Been a while since I've been over all of this. Hope it's addressed in CIV.

Um, right. The chances of the Man, so to speak, listening to the People?

[Jon Shafer]

It depends on how they program it... they don't purposefully include bugs, ya know.

[snoopy369]

You sure? Otherwise how would they get us to buy CIV: Play The Rest Of The World? Or CIV: Conquer Them?



(yes, i'm just kidding )

[Jon Shafer]

It's pessimists like you that drive developers to torment us poor people.

[snoopy369]

Probably true.

[snoopy369]

Donde esta la save?

[Rommel2D]

2630

Los Trip

[Jon Shafer]

Sent about half hour ago.

[snoopy369]

Sent to Theseus ...

[Rommel2D]

2590

->Trip