Iron Civer II Green Theater

[Theseus]

I trust Rommel.

[Rommel2D]

sucker!

[Paddy]

hehehe

[Krill]

I have a single tile that generates 2 food.

[Krill]

The rest is march or desert, and as I don't know where the fresh water is, Agr is mute

[Paddy]

So not a good start.

[Theseus]

Originally posted by Krill
I have a single tile that generates 2 food.

And the problem is?

Get tough, soldier!! GUT IT OUT!!



Errr... a restart seems in order.

[snoopy369]

I don't want to sound like a jerk, but I'm pretty much against a restart, assuming Rommel previewed this and found it to be acceptable. Perhaps you just haven't seen much of your map?

But we should hear Rommel here

I'd still like to continue playing the saves, to get it going somewhere, if the decision is no restart. I see no reason why taking 5 minutes to play would hurt us any even if it is restarted ...

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Krill
have a single tile that generates 2 food.
The rest is march or desert, and as I don't know where the fresh water is, Agr is mute

I didn't want to affect the integrity of the game by discussing this in the open, but the game seems to be stopped and the discussion is already going here...

You have one 2-food tile now. In ten turns when your population grows, there will be 3 more 2-food tiles. there will also be 7 immediately irrigable tiles and (I think) one 3-food tile, all from fresh water that is visible from the starting tile even before cultural expansion. Also, there are three forest chops available for extra sheilds and more 2-food tiles. All of this is visible from the first turn starting position, except that you will have to move a unit two tiles to find out which water is fresh.

The first tournament had restarts because there were random tribes. This time with picked tribes, no restarts was a stated condition from the beginning. Proximity of fresh water is the lone achille's heel for Ag tribes. Note that I didn't do this to 'sabotage' Ag, it's a feature designed into the game.

Starts aren't all 'equal', but they should all allow survival to the point where players can contact each other and find compensation with diplomacy. There are also 5 instead of 4 players, which makes for more diplomatic options...

[snoopy369]

/me points to his most recent statement before this one ...

Can we please play now?

Oh, and try being expansionist on a tiny map. Then tell me your trait is nerfed.

[Krill]

The first person to my capital gets a free city. I promise to not build any defenders so it will be easy to take...

[Krill]

I didn't want to affect the integrity of the game by discussing this in the open, but the game seems to be stopped and the discussion is already going here...

Honestly, feel free to discuss my lands. I won't be using them.

You have one 2-food tile now. In ten turns when your population grows, there will be 3 more 2-food tiles. there will also be 7 immediately irrigable tiles and (I think) one 3-food tile, all from fresh water that is visible from the starting tile even before cultural expansion. Also, there are three forest chops available for extra sheilds and more 2-food tiles. All of this is visible from the first turn starting position, except that you will have to move a unit two tiles to find out which water is fresh.

Let me describe another start to you. 8 grassland tiles, the rest being jungle, desert or plains, on a standard map, albeit with a game forest. That was Apolytons start in the PTW ISDG, and you will not here a single member of Apolytons team saying that it was an acceptable start, as other teams got plenty of bonus food and land they could grow into, for a competitive game. The marsh here already hints at being as large as the jungle there, and I can't have a clue where anything is without exploring. What do I explore with Rommel? All I have is a settler and worker, and that is what I'm using.

The first tournament had restarts because there were random tribes. This time with picked tribes, no restarts was a stated condition from the beginning. Proximity of fresh water is the lone achille's heel for Ag tribes. Note that I didn't do this to 'sabotage' Ag, it's a feature designed into the game.

I'm not really complaining about the fresh water, and I definately would not if I had half decent land. There is also the problem that you hand picked the maps, so we now have a competitive game where one person has decided who gets what, and you can not admit that that is fair.

[Rommel2D]

Originally posted by Krill
The marsh here already hints at being as large as the jungle there, and I can't have a clue where anything is without exploring. What do I explore with Rommel? All I have is a settler and worker, and that is what I'm using.

There is also the problem that you hand picked the maps, so we now have a competitive game where one person has decided who gets what, and you can not admit that that is fair.

Most people who don't have Ex tribes build units to explore with. I didn't hand-pick anything. I generated a map and looked at the starts. I moved a few starts where it looked like a player would get clobbered before making contact will all other players. I moved a few resources when it looked like someone would get shut out of iron and/or horses in the ancient era.

When I reviewed this map I saw that this was a tough start, but also thought that one of the better players with arguably the best tribe would have a good shot of turning it into a win...

[Paddy]

Originally posted by Krill
The first person to my capital gets a free city. I promise to not build any defenders so it will be easy to take...

if we to continue, you will need to send me the save...
please check the save you sent me

[Krill]

Rommel, that is the problem.

We are currently playing this game to find out who is the better player. You, however, have already decided who the better players, and the best civs, are and weakened their positions. As a competitive game everyone should have started in (fairly) equal positions, so that our abilities (at playing civ, and our knowledge of the game) would have been the defining factor, but instead you decided who was most likely to win, and put them at a disadvantage, effectively making the game a lottery.