C3C PBEM Tournament: Game #4

[BigFree]

The players:

Game 4:
BigFree (GMT - 8) bigfree1 AT comcast DOT net
E_T (GMT -5) royparrish AT earthlink DOT net
Sir Ralph (GMT + 1) sirralph AT gmx DOT com
Paddy the Scot (GMT + 11) paddythescot AT hotmail DOT com

Awaiting turn....

Edited to change turn oder.

[Harovan]

Why is the turn order that strange? Who slept here, especially since I mentioned that once already?

[BigFree]

ET's ability to play the turns in a certain has nothing to do with his location on the earth. His schedule is mixed and his job is a temp one right now. So, it really makes him no differnece where he is in the order.

[E_T]

SR, I currently am working a 6PM to 6:30AM EST job. I work 2 days on and 2 days off. So, I'm now up in the evening and early mornings.

RL s*cks sometimes....

E_T

[BigFree]

Ok, turn order WAS changed by OctX:

So, now it's:

1)BF
2)ET
3)SR
4)PTS

Turn sent to ET. Can we all meet in #apolyton to get some turns done? Myself and ET are there now.

[Harovan]

No, if you're considering that it's 3am here and I have to get up at seven. I'm going to bed now. I may play a turn in the morning.

[E_T]

Maybe OctX (or whoever) thinks the world turns the other direction.

No matter, 4000BC sent to SR.

E_T

[BigFree]

Its the same difference.

Just because the date changes on a certain line on the world it doesn't mean that the game must start with those that are nearest that line. The games rotation still goes around the world with out back tracking (considering ET and I are in the US).

[Harovan]

Sorry, but the save didn't make it to me.

[Harovan]

By the way, you have messed up the turn order still more. It is now flowing from west to east, i.e. against the sun. That's the absolute worst what can happen. I expect this game to last forever. Bugger, but my interest in playing Civ3 is waning anyway...

[BigFree]

SirRalph, you are wrong on your point. Not everyone plays their turns only in the mornings or the afternoon or the evenings. It different for everyone. The turn order does not have to follow the rise and setting of the sun; it can go in the reverse order just as well. East to West or vice versa is the same thing as far as moving the game along.

The only thing you want to avoid is things like this:

Player #:
1) -8gmt
2) +2GMT
3) -6GMT
4) +5GMT

This jumps back and forth. West-East-West-East.

We want West-West-West-West or East-East-East-East.

Now, you might say that ET should have gone ahead of me, maybe that is technically correct. But, the difference in our timezones is only 3 hours and we both are very active here so we won't be the ones holding up the turns. I doubt you will be either. (ET told me he sent the turn to you) I have experince playing with Paddy as well and he's a relatively quick player as well. I don't see any problems with our game moving along.

[Harovan]

Paddy the Scot
Sir Ralph
E_T
Big Free

... or any cyclical change would be the best, assuming everyone plays mostly in his afternoon and evening times.

Let's assume, everyone plays his turn at 6pm his time and goes to bed (or watches TV, or cares for the family, or does housework...) after that. Lets further assume, E_T had no job issues:

I have the turn and play it, when it's 6pm my time. Six hours later, it's 6pm for E_T and he plays. Three hours later it's 6pm for BigFree. Five hours later it's 6pm for Paddy. Ten hours later it's 6pm for me again. The turn made it in 6+3+5+10=24 hours around the world.

If we reverse the turn order: I have the turn and play it, when it's 6pm my time. Fourteen hours later, it's 6pm for Paddy and he plays. Nineteen hours later it's 6pm for BigFree. Twenty one hour later it's 6pm for E_T. Eighteen hours later it's 6pm for me again. The turn made it in 14+19+21+18=72 hours around the world.

I know that this is too strict, because an evening is not a punctual matter which can be reduced to "just 6pm and nothing else", but it is an exaggeration to show the general idea. Even if we assume, that the two Americans play the game in the same day, it's still at least two days per turn as opposed to one. You can not assume, that everyone lives in your time zone, like you did yesterday (inviting all in the chat, although it was 3am for me... while it was 6pm for you, a coincidence?).

But as I said, I don't care much if this game lasts forever.

[BigFree]

It is an exageration. Which is why I had made the point that people play at different times. I do not have a set 'play time'. I play the turn when 1) I have the turn 2) I am around the computer to play it.

If you wanted to get the game moving as fast as possible then you would have had to have asked each of us when our best available time slot was to play it instead of assuming that each would play in the evenings mostly. It could be possible that it is only reasonable for Paddy to play and send the turn to you when it's 10AM for you. But, we do not know this. It may be that he can play and send to you when it's 9PM your time. Or it could be that he can play at varying times with nothing set in stone.


Even if you take a look at your 6PM example it shows that peopel must play at or near 6PM in order for the timely passing of the turn to occur. It was only posted what time zone the players are in. You are assuming that people have a schedule simular to yours in that people mostly play in their evenings.

If I play at 6AM (my time) then ET plays it 2 hours later at 11AM (his time) then you, SirRalph get the turn at 5PM (your time), then you play it 2 hours later and Paddy gets it at 5AM (his time), then he sends 2 hours later to me and I get it at 12 noon (my time). Lets say I take 2 hours to get to it; that's back to ET in 8 hours total. Now, this is assuming, like you did, that people will play the turn at the time I marked. Will everyone always be able to play at the same time everyday? Will everyone be available at different times everyday?

If every one had a set time to play the game, and those set times were the same for all players, then an East to West set-up would be best.

Will it happen like this? I doubt it. I get PBEM's at different times everyday. Some players always play at certain times though, if you send it to them an hour past that time, you have to wait 23 hours for them to get to it. Almost like clockwork.

I guess my main point is that I do not have a set time I can play it. If someone in this game can only play during set times, then they should tell us about it and we can reset the play order in order to accomodate them and to help the game along.

[Paddy]

Sir Ralph, I too play at all different hours of the day, for several points:

1. I am married, and humbly obey she whom I love

2. I am a dad, and love to play footy with my son.

3. I have a job, and work a minimum of 37.5 hours per week. We operate 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. So each week we have completely different rosters to last week. The master roster rotates every 20 weeks, and we are always changing the master roster

And so for these three reason my hours of play can greatly vary.

Yet I am involved with quite a few PBEM's as well, and these three components have not caused any major heartache to keeping the sacred save moving along.

My main request is that there is a post made to alert me that the save is on its way. Then if it does not show, I can track back etc... but I think you guys no all about that...

[Harovan]

As you all wish. The turn order is not all that speeds the game up. It is but one of the factors, with enough time and goodwill of the players and a good email equipment (and not yahoo and not hotmail) being the others. However if one sets it deliberately to the worst possible order (which we have right now), he has lost the right to ever complain if the game is too slow for his gusto.

I am married and have a full time job and rarely can afford to stay up later than midnight. So if E_T sends me the save after 6pm his time (my midnight), I can already say here and now, that I will (not may but definitely will) delay the game full 18 or 19 hours until I get home from work in the next day. Except in the very early game, where turns last 30 seconds at most, I usually can't afford to play in the morning either. And that is not because I am evil or want to prove something, but because the game runs in the wrong direction.

Not that I care much. Except for some PBEMs I don't play much Civ3 anymore, anyway. I'm pretty fed up with testing one beta patch per week in a game I already paid for, with virtually no noteable changes between the patches. I have a couple of games running, which are more enjoyable, and - more important - out of the BETA phase.