Political Correctness in Civ 3

[nationalist]

Originally posted by Alexnm
When you think about France, Joan of Arc is one of the first names that come to your mind.

I think that the first French leader that comes to mind is Napoleon. However, with Napoleon being Corsican, I think that Louis XIV or Charles DeGaulle would have made much better leaders for the French civilization than Joan of Arc. That was the most terrible choice for a leader, IMO

[MrDictator]

maybe they picked Catherine for the Russians because she brought a lot of culture to Russia, and didnt kill that many people unlike Peter,Stalin etc- most of the other leaders in civ 3 were complete gits

[Alex]

nationalist: but you have to agree that they needed someone to play the part of "sexy babe", just like the Foreign Advisor in Civ2.

[Jarvin]

I think a great choice for a Russian main leader would be Peter the Great, he's the one who gave Russia most of its power. He's the reason why Russia became a powerul nation, before him Russia was dependent of German mercenaries for defence.

One leader that really smacks of PCness is Lincoln, aside from freeing the slaves, he wasn't a very good president, the American Civil War started largely because of him, and not just because of abolition, many economic matters pissed of the South to the extent of causing a war. Washington, Jefferson, or one of the Roosevelts would have been much better IMO.

Mao pisses me off because he crippled China with his Great Leap Forward. I can undertsand how his notoriety put him above the other options, but Sun Yat Sen and that "First Emperor" (whos name i cant recall) seem much better choices.

I'll lay off Joan of Arc because everyone else has said everything there is to say about her, and I'll lay of Cleopatra because i dont know jack about Egyptian history (other than the fact that she didnt really do much).

I WILL say that Napoleon being a corsican shouldnt bar him from being the main leader of france. After all, Alexander the Great wasnt Greek, he was from Macedon.

On a more positive note: most of the other civs have very good choices of main leaders.

[Jarvin]

Shi Huangdi

Thats the chinese guy i couldnt remember!

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Fatalis2
If Churchill had been thir leader, I'd love to play the english, even if they're one of the worst civs in civ3... and even if I'm french ! I love Churchill !!
Yes, Elizabth I had more power than Victoria, but Victoria's empire was much more powerfull, isn't it ?

Very true, but it had nothing to with vicky, by the 19th century parliamnet and the prime minister were running the show. Disraelli would be more accurate(amongst others)

BTW there was a good doccumentary about churchil the other day, it said he was far happier when britain was on its own and in danger of losing.

[Wazell]

Well the Chinese leader thingy is kinda obvious. After all most civ players really can't name other leader than Mao and a few others, like Deng, Chiang Kai-shek, Sun Yat-sen or Shi Huagdi, even less spell their names right . So they had to choose him, despite all his regime's atrocities and misdoings over years.

[Master Zen]

Well, I think you've all been skipping the two most obvious omissions:

Abu Bakr instead of MOHAMMED!!!

Osman instead of SULEIMAN


I might understand the religious implications of having chosen Mohammed, but not Suleiman!

[nationalist]

Elizabeth was a good choice for a female leader. I think that she is the most approprate female in the game. She actually ruled England, and actually did a good job of it. I don't object to her being the leader. I think that Cleopatra and Joan were horrible choices. Joan never actually led France. Cleopatra was a Greek descendent who ruled thousands of years after Egypt had reached the peek of its power. Catherine was alright, but they could have made a better choice. I'm undecided about Isabella, but I feel about the same way towards her as I do towards Cat. I think that they should have made Louis XIV the leader of France, and made Boudicca the leader of the Celts. It would have kept the gender balance, made France less ridiculous, and Boudicca could have played the role of "sexy babe".

[David Murray]

Originally posted by Lord Merciless
If you can raze enemy cities(killing millions)

Think so? Have you ever noticed all those workers that suddenly appear whenever you raise a city?

In the cuddly world of Civ 3, forced labour doesn't even result in people dying from the harsh conditions. Oh no--the people decide to 'emigrate'! (See Civ manual)

[MrDictator]

its not THAT cuddly - you can kill millions of people by bombarding cities . If that dosnt satisfy your bloodlust, you can allways resort to good old nukes

[Rommel2D]

Perhaps the fact that Rommel and some other third-riechers struggled against Hitler is precisely why they were not made Great Leaders here. Not to say they weren't great men or generals, but they didn't exactly bring a lot of glory to ol Deutchland.

I think some of the choices for Civ figureheads are due to the fact they were looking for more of an achetypal representation of the overall culture than a demogogue who rallied the population for a brief term. I mean, either of the Roosevelts over Lincoln?

[Jarvin]

I believe Rommel was more loyal to Germany than he was to the nazis, thats why he tried to kill Hitler when the war turned bad. He was never a member of the nazi party, he just sided with them because they were making Germany stronger, and when Hitler started screwing things up, Rommel tried to kill him. I think he's a perfect choice.

[GePap]

Bismarck is an excellent leader for Germany: he made the modern state of Germany. What more would be needed?

[nationalist]

I agree 100% GePap.