Unit Movement Increase

[TriMiro]

I do not agree with the low moving points of the units in Civ3. I think that it is going to take more than 50 years fot my Warrior to get from one of my cities to another even without roads. Ancient Empires were quite large as teritory, yet they could move units much faster than one tile per 50 years.

Take Alexander the Great for instance he managed to conquer most of the ancient world for what 20 - 30 years. In Civ3 I will need that much just to take my troops out of the borders of my empire.

Consider the more modern age. a carier could travel from USA to Iraq for a month or so, and in Civ3 it will take 5 - 7 years even with Magelan's Expedition. This is just not realistic.

I believe that movement of all units has to be changed. It may destroy the balance as it is right now, I agree, but larger movement would make the game little bit more Militaristic. Wars would also be fought much faster and the outcome would be much faster. As it is right now every war in Civ3 is more or less a 100 years war.

What do you think people

[Spec]

Only boats should have a movement increase, I dont beleive that it takes 20 years for a galley to cross a lake.


Spec.

[Willem]

It's not a simulation, it's a game. If you have more movement with units, you lose something in the gameplay. For one thing, no unit will ever be able to retreat.

[Jaybe]

TriMiro, the objective should be to make the game LESS militaristic!!

While I may be leaning more and more towards the dark side, and an offensive war is enjoyable, I do not like it overall.

[wilbill]

Want realism? What's a good estimate of the distance an ancient iron/bronze age warrior could walk in 50 years? From Spain to Siberia? And back again? Several times? How about a horseman? Realism would be to just build railroads on every square of the map when it's generated. Of course then, as the time per turn compresses, we'd have to start cutting back. so that by the industrial age, the standard movement rates would be just about right.

[Jaybe]

Bleep (that is, "expletive deleted")! I did not intend to get into a "basics of strategy game design" here.

How far the individuals in a unit could move in a segment of time (with their particular transportation mode), is NOT how to determine the speed of a unit in a strategy game. It scarcely works even in a tactical game.

They did not have radio then, so communications took time. The decisions had to be made, intelligence gathered, supplies and equipment marshalled. Beauracracies were usually not as efficient then either, so more time is lost. Then the bleepin' decisions had to be made all over again as situations changed. Society has a lot more things to do than just go out conquering others.

You can say that a whole multi-turn war historically would have occured in less than one turn and you would be correct, but it comes out in the wash. It also allows other civs time to react, or YOU time to react to other civs' moves. As it is, Civ is a 540-turn game. Would you like to add a few hundred turns to that?

[ormuzd]

Yes, but how much is the teritory compared to the real world? And, yes, it's a game
and is good enough IMO

[Arrian]

I think minor adjustments to ship movement and aircraft range could be made - and made dependent on map size. Leave the land units alone, though.

-Arrian

[TriMiro]

I never ment the increase to be of magnitude of 100 or more tiles. I would accept 2 - 3 per Warior, and 4 - 5 per Horsemen and so on.

As for the time to react, 2 - 3 movement tiles would not matter that much.

There can also be a feature that the further away your units are from your teritory the slower they become. That will reflect the time for gathering intelligance and so on.

[TheArsenal]

I don't demand that level of realism, and never think of game play in terms of years, but turns. This way, the number of years it takes to move a unit from one place to the next, or the way advances in the tech tree never line up properly with the year I am in, don't bother me.

[wilbill]

Originally posted by TheArsenal
I don't demand that level of realism, and never think of game play in terms of years, but turns.

I think you have to approach it that way. I don't like some of the rather large differences between ground, air, and sea units' movement rates, but to just make a blanket addition of movement points to every unit in the game would really have some incredibly negative effects.
TriMiro, have you considered what would happen in a game with raging barbarians on a tiny or small map? You'd be lucky to get a second city built by the end of the Ancient Era. You'd have "barbarians at the gates" every turn.
Looking at it in terms of game balance, the movement rates may require a small tweak here and there, but an overall increase would create enormous problems.

[wilbill]

double post, sorry

But, TriMiro, there's nothing to stop you from giving your idea a try. It may turn out to be just what you want from the game. That's what mods are for.

[Mad Bomber]

I have had this argument before and I will only say this the movement for all but modern units are fine as long as you keep in mind that they are designed for standard map play. Playing on a large or huge map and the modern unit movements do need to be modded by adding "all terrain as roads flag" to all modern ships as well as to armor and mech units. In addition the carrier and nuc sub need their base movement increased as well.

The main problem is that the time scale used in Civ 3 is wacked. I would love to see a longer game with many units being built and Wonders truly taking many turns to build. I would love to see a game taking at least 2x's the number of turns to complete with the scale drastically curtailed in the ancient age.

[TriMiro]

Playing on a large or huge map and the modern unit movements do need to be modded by adding "all terrain as roads flag" to all modern ships as well as to armor and mech units

That is one of the things that I dislike most. When I have RailRoad I can move my entire army from one end of my empire to the other in 1 turn, however, if I want my attak vs. the enemy to be backed up by sea power I have to wait 3 - 5 turns for my ships to move. This makes ships almost useless in offence.

I see that the voting is against general change. I wish I could add a third option: Change sea movement only, to see what you will say about this.

[Panag]

hi ,

nope

its fine now , the only thing that should be changed is the RR bonus , it should be limited , ....

have a nice day