Whats with these 'colonies'

[MrFun]

ICS = Infinite City Sprawl

It's basically a cheesy strategy where players realize that more population 1 or 2 cities is better than fewer mature, more developed cities.

[Grumbold]

Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
A couple of quick comments:

7) Resources *do* deplete, depending on use. When this happens, you need to find a new source of iron/oil/uranium/whatever if you want to continue cranking out units that depend on that resource. You *can* find new resources inside your city radius as well.


Dan

If that is a quick comment then I really want to see you discourse at length on an issue

You've cleared up so many points that were being picked over but if you could be a bit clearer about how you find new resources it would be great. Such a beautiful bombshell to drop on us

Can you tell roughly how large your resource pool is and how fast you are consuming it?
Do new lodes just appear with new tech advances?
Must they be prospected for?
Will prospecting multiple times in one place work better than searching different tiles?
Will it be possible to see on the map which tiles you have prospected and which are still possibilities?
Are they completely random or still fitting some overarching distribution model?
Will the domestic demands on fundamental resources like steel and oil in the modern age be factored at all or only unit construction?
Will leonardo's use resources when upgrading units or do it free of charge?
If it does drain your pool, how do you prevent it from upgrading every unit automatically if you need to conserve certain resources?
If foreign trade is draining your supply, can you set a specific limit of resource to trade per turn?

[joseph1944]

They (Firaxis) said when we make a new discovery like Iron Making, then all of the Iron deposit will be visible. Now keep in mind it will be visible only to the Civs that made the discovery. And that bring up another point. You must get out and explore as fast as possible if you want to control a large portion of the resources.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by MrFun
I'm not sure if I will like the limited resources concept.

Doesn't this mean that by the late stage of the game, civilizations will not be able to build a variety of units because there will be NO resources left on ANY tiles that have been used?

This would suck big time.

OK, lets take iron as an example. Lets say the iron-tech uncovers a specific number of iron-resources somewhat unevenly distributed all over the world-map. Later, in the medieval era; a certain percentage have already been depleted. But that doesnt necessarily mean that the total number of iron-resources available worldwide have dwindled. Infact, for each iron-mine depleted a new fresh iron-resource suddenly pops up somewhere else on the worldmap. So, most probably, the total number of any specific resources always stays more or less the same. Im only guessing here, of course - but it seems to be a rather probable guess.

Also, what about resouces in the ocean? If you can move out a worker anywhere on the land-map to produce a colony/ exploit a resource - why, shouldnt we expect something similar when it comes to exploit ocean-squares for oil, in modern eras, far away from any coastline?

Finally: I suspect they most probably going to add a cosmic rule deplete-factor in the Rules.txt files, as well.

[tniem]

Do colonies operate on the square they were built or are they like cities and have a radius?

[meriadoc]

On the face of it, I too have doubts about the idea of allowing resources to deplete. I mean, MrFun is right, the later stages of the game would be terrible if there were no really useful resources like iron left.
However, after thinking about it for a minute or two, it occurred to me that the Firaxis playtesters have, or soon will, encounter this problem as well. Since they probably didn't want to run out of resources at the game's end either, I suspect that the problem isn't as serious as we think.
Here is a good idea though, or at least I think that it is. In previous incarnations of Civ, the recycling advance was used to reduce pollution. How about we use recycling in CivIII to reduce the rate at which the resources are depleted. After all, the recycled material has to go somewhere. Just like we get shields back from disbanding a unit inside of a city, recycling should have a similar effect.
Besides, I kind of like the idea of having to watch my resources. I am kind of sick of the strategy of building massive armies of units to perform attacks in the "bludgeon" style. Maybe it's time that I try and build smaller, specialized armies to use the "rapier" approach.

[Ralf]

Originally posted by tniem
Do colonies operate on the square they were built or are they like cities and have a radius?

99% sure that they only operates on the square were built. Read Dan Mahagas response on page one.

[tniem]

Originally posted by Ralf


99% sure that they only operates on the square were built. Read Dan Mahagas response on page one.

Alright that is what I had expected by what I have read but, hey one can always hope.

[MrFun]

Actually, I like the idea that colonies only operate on the square they're established.

It makes them more specialized and distinct from the ordinary cities.

[jackazzstudent]

I'm assuming then that when your culture border expands to encompass a colony, then that resource will always be available as long as a road connects it to a city. This prevents the AI from claiming that resource unless they conquer a nearby city and expand borders/colonize the resource?

Thanks,

Adam

[Buck Birdseed]

Good question. Apparently you can build colonies inside enemy territory, so how will that work? Perhaps you have to have a mine or something on the square even when it's within your city borders....

[Darkknight]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Dan Magaha FIRAXIS
A couple of quick comments:




3) Colonies act like pop.1 cities in the sense that if an enemy walks onto an unprotected colony, it destroys the colony. So you need to fortify a couple of strong defensive units and/or build a fort on a colony, otherwise your opponents will just walk in and, blammo, no more Roman Legions can be produced.



Does this mean forts will defend themselves when attacked even if there are no units in it??

[Harlan]

The new info about colonies is nice, esp. that resources will deplete. I hope they'll deal with the problem of, say, all the Iron running out, by having new injections of resources when certain new technologies are discovered. In the case of Iron, mining technology has changed dramatically over time. In the ancient days the resource pretty much had to be on or near the surface, but as time went on they were able to get stuff deeper down. So hopefully, no problem.

However, given what we now know about colonies, I'm puzzled why I would want to build one. Why on earth wouldn't I wait a bit longer and build a new city where I'd build the colony? A cost benefit analysis doesn't make the colony look that appealing, though admittedly we don't know all.

Colony: Costs a population point. Doesn't give you borders, so enemies can attack the colony even if they can't enter your borders. Has to be connected by road for a benefit. Is a dead end - it will eventually cease to be, and leave you nothing. This may even happen early if the resource its on runs out.

New city: Its one downside is it costs two pop points. Does give borders. Doesn't necessarily have to be connected by road for a benefit (for instance a port will do). Is not a dead end. Even if the resource you build it near becomes obsolete, the city is good for so many other things.

There are probably other advantages to cities we don't know about, for instance in Civ2 cities had a defensive bonus even without City Walls. Firaxis says you have to build a fortress on the colony to defend it.

Unless there is some extreme limit to the number of cities I can build, cities seem superior in every way, and the extra 1 pop cost isn't much to pay. Am I missing something here? Instead of building two colonies, I can build one city, and watch it grow and produce from the get-go, and get the benefit of lots of tiles, not just one. Eventually the city will be big and prosperous, while eventually the colony will be nothing.

Something extra needs to be given to colonies, esp. something to remain if a city border overtakes the colony. Its so strange that one would have a thriving resource extraction operation, and then a city gets close to it, and all of the sudden, nothing. Tumbleweeds. Not even a working mine remaining in the case of mined goods or farming in the case of food goods. Strange.

[TechWins]

What would be really cool is if you could bombard a harbor with a naval unit. Like the naval unit can attack the coastal fortress and like how a land unit can attack a city wall.

[JamesJKirk]

You can build colonies anywhere you want (although if you try to build one inside someone else's borders, it's considered an act of war, and your colony will get utterly stomped

This makes me wonder about another civ's borders expanding to a colony of yours that previously existed? Do they attack? what if you're friendly civs? Is there some sort of negotiation?