Whats with these 'colonies'

[dainbramaged13]

Did I miss something? in one of the recent news items (im not sure which), i found a few mysteries. What are these colonies? are they really cities? why doesn't your border follow them? did i hear something about workers building them instead of settlers? can someone clear me up, and tell me whether my confusions are bsed on something, or just me being stupid?

[Wittlich]

quote: Originally posted by dainbramaged13 on 05-16-2001 06:36 PM Did I miss something? in one of the recent news items (im not sure which), i found a few mysteries. What are these colonies? are they really cities? why doesn't your border follow them? did i hear something about workers building them instead of settlers? can someone clear me up, and tell me whether my confusions are bsed on something, or just me being stupid?

Dainbramaged, according to various press releases a "colony" can be built by a worker (not a settler). This colony is placed on top of a resource (silk, wool, gold, etc.). If the resource is within your city's radius, then no colony is necessary to harvest the resource. However, if the resource is located a few squares OUTSIDE your city's radius, you build a worker and move him to the resource. Then with the worker, you build a colony (a colony is not a city, but rather an extension or suburb of a city). Once the colony is built, you connect the colony with your city or cities. The resource HAS to be connected to one or more of your cities by some form of communication system (be it a road, railroad, maglev, airport, or even sea port) in order for you to use the resource in question.

Once the city grows enough to naturally encompass the resource in question, the colony disappears since the resource is now within the city's radius.

I hope this cleared up you confusion concerning Colonies Dainbramaged.

- Wittlich

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After all is said and done, usually more is said than done.


[This message has been edited by Wittlich (edited May 16, 2001).]

[Provost Harrison]

Ah, thanks for the clarification. I thought it was some kind of terrain improvement at first. It is certainly an interesting concept though and a good one IMO

[Jarouik]

I just wanted to make a correction to the explanation above... actually, a colony has nothing to do with whether the resource is inside or outside your city radius. A colony is required if you want access to a special resource that is outside your civilization's borders, which are determined by your culture rating and are completely separate from your city radius, which does not expand.

Note also that a colony and the special resources you access with them have nothing to do with the usual food/shields/trade you harvest from your city radius; when you e.g. have a colony on top an iron special resource, all the cities connected to it by e.g. road have access to iron, which is only needed so that you can build certain units etc. Once your culture rating grows enough so that your nation's borders expand and the resource will fall within your borders, a colony is no longer needed, just the connecting roads will suffice. In general, the more improvements a particular city has, the larger the area around it that belongs within your borders.

Yes, I know it takes a little bit of explanation to elucidate the difference between the usual food/shields/arrows resources you had in Civ 2 and the new special resources, which are used in the new trading system as well... it seems there are lots of misunderstandings regarding the issue of city radius vs. expanding borders.

[raingoon]

Yeah, this is helping me understand the fact I did not understand much about city radius. I think I get the culture=borders relationship, which IMO is very cool. But I still don't quite understand if the city radius really stays the same? Did I read somewhere that it expanded as your city grew? Or no. What is the radius in Civ 3, same as in Civ 2?

[Wittlich]

Raingoon, as your city grows, your city radius will also grow (similiar to CTP2).


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After all is said and done, usually more is said than done.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

No, your city radius doesnt grow. Your borders of your civ grows.

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Nothing can stop the course of History.

[Guest]

quote: Originally posted by Jarouik on 05-17-2001 10:53 AM I just wanted to make a correction to the explanation above... actually, a colony has nothing to do with whether the resource is inside or outside your city radius. A colony is required if you want access to a special resource that is outside your civilization's borders, which are determined by your culture rating and are completely separate from your city radius, which does not expand. Note also that a colony and the special resources you access with them have nothing to do with the usual food/shields/trade you harvest from your city radius; when you e.g. have a colony on top an iron special resource, all the cities connected to it by e.g. road have access to iron, which is only needed so that you can build certain units etc. Once your culture rating grows enough so that your nation's borders expand and the resource will fall within your borders, a colony is no longer needed, just the connecting roads will suffice. In general, the more improvements a particular city has, the larger the area around it that belongs within your borders. Yes, I know it takes a little bit of explanation to elucidate the difference between the usual food/shields/arrows resources you had in Civ 2 and the new special resources, which are used in the new trading system as well... it seems there are lots of misunderstandings regarding the issue of city radius vs. expanding borders.

So when your border extends to the colony, do you get your worker back after the colony disapears? I should think so, or at least the city size should be enlarged to show the inclusion of the colony. Maybe someone from Firaxis knows?

[Jarouik]

quote: Originally posted by raingoon on 05-17-2001 05:12 PM Yeah, this is helping me understand the fact I did not understand much about city radius. I think I get the culture=borders relationship, which IMO is very cool. But I still don't quite understand if the city radius really stays the same? Did I read somewhere that it expanded as your city grew? Or no. What is the radius in Civ 3, same as in Civ 2?

All the city screens we have seen, as well as the picture of a settler showing the city radius of a city if it were found on the square the settler is on, have displayed the same 21-square radius as in Civ 1 and 2. In addition, Firaxis has confirmed that even though your borders haven't expanded far enough, you can still use any of the tiles within your city area. Add to this the confusion of many people thinking your city radius would grow due to the fact that your borders, which are shown on the main map around the cities, actually grow, and the unclear wording of a Firaxis member about how the amount of land you can use increases as your city grows, just as before (apparently meaning that as you get more citizens, you can work more tiles at once, just as in Civ 2) - so all in all I think it is safe to say your city radius does not expand, at least not until Firaxis explicitly says it will.

[joseph1944]

Bigfree:
Settler makes cities.
Worker makes settlements, and is gone forever.
New Worker, build roads, rails, etc.




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[Guest]

quote: Originally posted by joseph1944 on 05-18-2001 05:07 PM Bigfree: Settler makes cities. Worker makes settlements, and is gone forever. New Worker, build roads, rails, etc.

Joseph:

Settler built> City size decreases
Settler joins city> City size increases

Yes?

Then why wouldn't you get back a "Worker", when in effect, he has re-joined the city?

That shouldn't be too much to comprehend.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

To prevent ICS

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Nothing can stop the course of History.

[polymths]

quote: Originally posted by bigfree1 on 05-18-2001 07:49 PM Joseph: Settler built> City size decreases Settler joins city> City size increases Yes? Then why wouldn't you get back a "Worker", when in effect, he has re-joined the city? That shouldn't be too much to comprehend.

Settlers do decrease the city size. However, I do not know whether workers decrease city size. Note that settlers and workers are different in Civ3. Settlers in Civ3 only are for building new cities nothing more, while workers do all the road building, irrigation, colony building, etc.

In any case, it was confirmed by Firaxis some time ago that once you build a colony with a worker, the worker is consumed, and if that colony is later absorbed because it falls within your borders, you do not get the worker back.

[Guest]

quote: Originally posted by polymths on 05-18-2001 07:55 PM In any case, it was confirmed by Firaxis some time ago that once you build a colony with a worker, the worker is consumed, and if that colony is later absorbed because it falls within your borders, you do not get the worker back.

Where was this information found? I've never seen this stated clearly.
Also, I do believe that your city size does decrease when you build a worker (by one) and by two when you build a settler.

If they want to prevent ICS then why can a settler be added to a city and not a worker (at least according to you logic)?

[joseph1944]

In Firaxis April update.
After typing the above I took another look at Firaxis site. A settler cost 2 foods and the worker cost 1 food plus shields to build. As stated the settler can only build a new city or add pop. points to an existing city. The worker build everthing else. However the worker can also add pop. points to existing city. And as stated if he the worker builds a colony he is lost forever and you must build a new worker. As I wrote the other day we will have to build military units to protect our worker because Firaxis said a lone worker will be killed by the AI as soon as they see him unless you have a treaty with them.

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[This message has been edited by joseph1944 (edited May 18, 2001).]