Infinite Howitzer Strategy

[polymths]

In Civ2, the howitzer unit is the most powerful unit. Ignoring city walls, it basically would win every battle, most times defeating two units per turn. (Howitzers have two MPs)

As a consequence, many Civ players, including myself, simply use the following strategy:
1. Build up production capacity (Factories, Hoover Dam, Mfg Plant, Offshore Platforms, Railroads, Mines, etc.)
2. Mass produce as many howitzers as possible and mass howitzers for attack.
3. Attack with a hundred howitzers at once and overwhelm enemy before they can even counterattack.

What new concepts and features (especially those already announced) would prevent IHS from working in Civ3?

[This message has been edited by polymths (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Grumbold]

Limited railroad movement or inability to use enemy railroads. Changing howitzers to do % damage so they are good at weakening full strength units but inefficient at killing ones already under half strength. Allow defending howitzers to use counter battery fire. Use army combat system so bombardment cannot be conducted as a separate action. Artillery never attacks unsupported it always has infantry cover to prevent the guns being overrun.
[This message has been edited by Grumbold (edited May 15, 2001).]

[SerapisIV]

Using howitzers as artillery instead of an attacking unit in terms of game mechanics is the key to fixing this problem. With the bombardment feature already known to be in Civ3, I see little reason why a howitzer would be able to do anything but such a support or wall-destroying action.

[MrFun]

With strategies that are cheesy, like ICS and Howitzer usage, there is a simple solution -- refrain from using those cheesy strategies.

I know, I know -- I'm such a genius!

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Never submit to social double standards.

[polymths]

quote: Originally posted by MrFun on 05-15-2001 06:10 PM With strategies that are cheesy, like ICS and Howitzer usage, there is a simple solution -- refrain from using those cheesy strategies. I know, I know -- I'm such a genius!

The point about ICS and IHS, though is that they reveal many many fundamental flaws and weaknesses of the game.

If you know that ICS and IHS are the most effective methods, it really lessens the gameplay. I mean knowing that it works, it really feels foolish to be refraining from using ICS and IHS.

We're not talking about cheating, mind you, we're talking about how the game model and game mechanics point you at using these strategies!

Need to maximize productivity, how? --> ICS
Want to maximize attack, how? --> IHS

I doesn't take genious to realize very quickly the ICS and IHS are the natural course to take!

Aren't most expert Civ2 warmongers simply ICSers and IHSers?

[This message has been edited by polymths (edited May 15, 2001).]

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

If you think that Howitzers arent as powerful as they are in civ2, your quite mistaken. My brother is in a cavalry division (artillery), and has repeatedly told me of their firepower.

Lobbing a bunch of howitzers in real life might work, except that real life combat is extremely complicated, and I wont get into that. but anyway, just thought you'd like to know about real life matters.

[Theben]

quote: Originally posted by Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto on 05-16-2001 12:42 AM If you think that Howitzers arent as powerful as they are in civ2, your quite mistaken. My brother is in a cavalry division (artillery), and has repeatedly told me of their firepower.

Yeah, but you won't be using a cav division of artillery to secure hostile territory, will you?

I'm pretty certain howitzers will be put into the "bombard" category, meaning it'll be used to soften up enemy strongpoints before the grunts move in.

[Diablo, Bro. of Mephisto]

quote: Originally posted by Theben on 05-16-2001 02:38 AM Yeah, but you won't be using a cav division of artillery to secure hostile territory, will you? I'm pretty certain howitzers will be put into the "bombard" category, meaning it'll be used to soften up enemy strongpoints before the grunts move in.

Thats exactly why I said, "except that real life combat is complicated". And you are correct, I can't imagine what would happen to a cav division if it came running through enemy lines.

[drake]

quote: What new concepts and features (especially those already announced) would prevent IHS from working in Civ3?

Well for starters, lessen the movement rate on rr. Howitzers are basically neutered without a rail to move on...........

[Father Beast]

improved road and rail rules would help a lot. I should point out that those same rules would limit the effectiveness of my legions of INVINCIBLE SPIES!
I've fought some wars against an overwhelmingly powerful opponent with 40 spies, and 1 howitzer. city goes to size 1, loses city walls, howitzer takes single defender, city and all its supported units disappear. sometimes can do 2 cities a turn with a single howitzer.
Improved road and rail rules as suggested in the EC3 would help a lot of this.

Hope it makes it in.