Only 7 civilizations per game

[yin26]

LOL! You guys are TOO much! First, as Imran has pointed out, we don't even know how Minor Civs will work...and that could really round out the picture here. So just hold on until we have more info!

[Roman]

quote: Originally posted by yin26 on 05-01-2001 06:52 AM First, as Imran has pointed out, we don't even know how Minor Civs will work...and that could really round out the picture here. So just hold on until we have more info!

Unfortunately I think I know how minor civs will work - barbarians.

[Roman]

WHY IT MAKES BUSINESS SENSE TO RAISE THE CIVILIZATION LIMIT ABOVE 7

THEORY OF POSITIVE EXTERNALITY:

From the above posts, it is clear that the group that is most angry about the 7 civilization limit is the scenario makers. This is hardly a suprise - playing with more than 7 civilizations per game in a normal, single player game may not be a large improvment as some posters point out, but having more than 7 civilizations is important for making scenarios, because it is a fundemantal limit and being able to change it is an important part of customization. Undoubtedly removing the limit could contribute to more and better scenarios.
Firaxis people themselves have admited that one of the most important reasons for the longevity of the Civilization series has been the customizability of the games and the scenario/mod community's creation of scenarios for the Civilization games. Raising the 7 civilization limit would not only stop the alienation of some scenario makers who have been aking for an increase in the number of civs per game (as a priority) for years and feel they have been totally ignored on too many occasions, but would also enable them to create more and better scenarios.
This in turn would have a positive effect on sales, as scenarios are posted on the web and thus provide a positive externality for the compan and it would increase the longevity of the game further.

Therefore, please Firaxis reconsider this 7 civilization limit, for your own good and ours too.

[Roman]

WHY THE 7 CIVILIZATION LIMIT IS SO DAMAGING TO SCENARIO MAKERS

A CASE STUDY: The world as it is now - scenario

I thought a good explanation of the damage the 7 civilization limit does to scenario makers could be provided by means of an example.

Let us suppose a scenario maker decides to create a scenario based on the real world in its current state.

The scenario maker must decide how to split up the world into 7 civilizations. This will probably end up in the following division:

USA - North America
EU - European Union and associated countries
Russia - Commonwealth of Independent States
China - China, North Korea, Burma
India - obvious
Islamic States - a large amalgation of countries many of which have little to do with each other and are even outright hostile to each other
Neutrals - everybody else

Now you must be able to see the limits this imposes on scenario-makers. With this kind of set up an attack on Thailand by China will immediately result in China being at war also with Brazil, Switzerland, Mali, Japan, etc. Not only that, but the "Neutrals" also invariably are the most powerful civ in the game as they unite a vast collection of countries many of which should have no connection to each other whatsoever. I am sure you understand that is only an example and that there are many other problems with this setup and now can appreciate the problems scenario-makers face with the 7 civilization limit.

[Roman]

BTW: The above case study comes from my own experience (and there are many more), so I know how frustrating the limit can be.

[Roman]

The solemn promise:

Once Firaxis clarifies this issue ie. explains whether the limit will be editable in the text-files, or whether there will be minor civs greater than just the barbarian cities and says why they decided to keep the limit, I promise to make only one last final post on the matter detailing my final opinion on it.

[techumseh]

I have only one word:

BOYCOTT!

[Imran Siddiqui]

quote: Unfortunately I think I know how minor civs will work - barbarians.

Mind reader? Fortune teller? How do you know? Jeff Morris's first announcement was the inclusion of Minor Civs. The barbarian mode is NOT what 'The List' said when it asked for Minor Civs. And you know, the previews also haven't spoken about the AI and many other things. Because they haven't spoken about Minor Civs doesn't mean that they aren't in there.

[Roman]

Imran, unlike the AI, minor civs are a much more tangible element of the game, so it would be noticed by the previewers. Moreover the fact that minor civs were the first announcement just indicates how old the announcement is and decreases the reliability of the information contained therein.

[Roman]

quote: 8 Number of civs to play with

*The below statements apply only if the above is actually true, which is by no means certain due to the contradictory nature of the information given. I think this information is trustworhty though, because it is the latest information we have."

Yes!! You know what this means? This means that the hard-coded limit isn't 8 (due to binary nature of computing) and we will be able to tweak this in the text files to at least 15.

My hopes are up again.

[Roman]

Wow, 5 pages ... this thread will be locked soon.

Anyway, in the light of the new information, there is probably no use for the thread anymore.

[Roman]

FINAL NOTE:

I (though I was not alone )appologise for causing all this fuss needlessly, when Firaxis has already implemented what we wanted.

[DrFell]

Damn, I hope this is true....

[DrFell]

*DP*
[This message has been edited by DrFell (edited May 02, 2001).]

[Fintilgin]

Not to be a naysayer, but just `cause there's 8 available dosn't mean it will be editable in the text files. Someone might have to hack the code or something... Still it would seem strange for them not to make the option available.

Why lock long threads anyway? Isn't that just stopping the busiest and most popular discussions? ::scratches head::

Joe