Only 7 civilizations per game

[jdlessl]

quote: Originally posted by Kautilya on 04-29-2001 03:13 PM Even apart from the sample-bias issue it's not clear how much the 100 odd respondents in this poll want this feature. Suppose having this comes at the cost of AI or graphics, lots of those respondents might decide that this is less important. A better poll would ask people to rank the features in descending order of importance: ai, graphics, more civs etc. This would give us an idea of how much of a priority this is.

AI
As many civs as I want. And I want this very, very, very much.
Eye candy

quote: Originally posted by Kautilya on 04-29-2001 03:13 PM The AI-civs in this respect, should behave as they were 3-4 losing human players against one single winning human player in a multiplayer game

Hmmm, partly true. With human players, some of us might look at the situation and say, "Wow, even the 4 of us together don't stand a chance in hell of winning, so rather than attack the big guy, I'll ally with him, and thus have a chance of surviving, even as his lowly vassal". We wouldn't always and without fail attack anyone who crosses a 'power threshold', breaking alliances, treaties, pacts, and friendships in doing so.
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Jared Lessl

[Greg_was_here]

I'll reserve my verdict until I actually see how Firaxis handles the minor civs. Without the minor civs, I would definitely oppose the decision made by Firaxis for limiting the number of civs to 7. I don't believe anything like that AI can't cope more than 7 civs or few more civs will make the AI
cripples. If Firaxis made a decision to limit the number of civs to 7, there must be good convincing reason for it.

I'd like to know how many slots will be given to the minor civs.

[St Leo]

The AI-civs in this respect, should behave as they were 3-4 losing human players against one single winning human player in a multiplayer game.

No, they should not. AI should behave like real leaders, not ones that are trying to win a game with fixed rules. If I want my opponents to behave that way, I'll play multiplayer.

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Leons Petrazickis (St. Leo)
http://aventine.cf-developer.net/minizigg/
petrazi@sprint.ca

[Roman]

Has anybody e-mailed Firaxis about the modification of the civilization limit through the text files yet?

[Ralf]

quote: Originally posted by jdlessl on 04-30-2001 10:42 AM "Wow, even the 4 of us together don't stand a chance in hell of winning, so rather than attack the big guy, I'll ally with him, and thus have a chance of surviving, even as his lowly vassal". We wouldn't always and without fail attack anyone who crosses a 'power threshold', breaking alliances, treaties, pacts, and friendships in doing so.

It all depends on what type of player the superior one is. Does he appear to be in a conquer-the-world mood, or is it space-travel thats on the agenda? Is his culture wastly superior, and did he initiated the war to begin with? Does he spend time on re-establish happiness in conquered cities? All these things matters.
If he instead is the ruthless Hitler-type in a bloodlust conquer-the-world-mood, with his goal set on "pick on at the time until they all mercilessly crushed" - well, then it would be rather naive to think that one could survive - even if he temporaily offer you to be is so called "ally", or "lowly wassal". The AI must be smart enough to see through these cheap temporary peace-offerings. Compare with Hitler - Appeasement is then not an option.

I say fight to the death!
Join multi-civ pacts and share everything - and fight to the death against the aggressor.

[This message has been edited by Ralf (edited April 30, 2001).]

[jdlessl]

quote: Originally posted by Ralf on 04-30-2001 12:14 PM It all depends on what type of player the conquer is.

They key phrase there is "It all depends". I could be friggin Ghandi with a reputation pure as arctic snow and the AI would still not hesitate to terminate centuries or even millennia of good relations because his civ sucked in comparison to mine. Sure, most of the time when I'd just throw in the towel and try to take the big guy down, but not always.

I am very much aware that this is not a failing on Sid's part but rather the extreme difficulty in writing good AI's. Which is why I think that multiplayer is really the only decent way to play civ. Everything else is just practice.

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Jared Lessl

[Eternal]

No doubt about it, this is just business as usual in your local computer game company. Take something, make it look prettier than it was before and change a bunch of things without making any substantial changes, advertise it as the game Jesus will play when he returns, sell it to the gauranteed number of suckers who will buy anything.

I really can't say I actually expected the jerks to have any more than 7 civs. And forget them releasing any patches so you could tweak it. If they wanted to spend the extra money making a patch they would have made it an option from the get-go.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Minor Civs, Minor Civs, Minor ****ING Civs

JESUS! I can't believe I wasted my time reading all this crap. Except for a few posts, this thread is an utter waste. Why? Because almost all of you neglect that Firaxis has confirmed that there WILL be minor civs. NO ONE knows how these minor civs will be implimented, so any talk of outrage over 'only' 7 civs is foolish at this point in time.

[aCa]

I just have to say it's strange that so many ppl complaint about how important it is to have more then 7 civs. You argue like this is the most important thing in the game. I can promise you that it's NOT that important. I have my thrust in Sid and the FIRIFAX team effords to make this game balanced, and I'll bet there is a (or many) reason why they only allow 7 civs in the game.

As many ppl have mantioned is that there will be minor civs, that will be interesting hearing more about. Maybe that will calm the mob down. A other thing that have been mentioned before is that is that in CIV2 2-3 civs got eliminated in the beginning of the game. Now that a settler need 2 pop, there is a BIG chance the problem with civs getting eliminated in the beginning have been removed. Now they have the time to build units before they can build a settler. So the 7 civs in civ3 would be like 9-10 civs in civ2.......... yeah and we also have minor civs on top of that.

If you say your not going to buy this game becouse of only 7 civs, then you are no REAL civ addivt. The thing thats REALLY important to improve is the AI. So we don't get bored after whooping the AI 2 times on deity level. The AI should really put up a fight, THATS THE REALLY IMPORTANT THING.

aCa (a Civilization addict)

aCa

[Roman]

quote: Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui on 05-01-2001 03:33 AM Minor Civs, Minor Civs, Minor ****ING Civs JESUS! I can't believe I wasted my time reading all this crap. Except for a few posts, this thread is an utter waste. Why? Because almost all of you neglect that Firaxis has confirmed that there WILL be minor civs. NO ONE knows how these minor civs will be implimented, so any talk of outrage over 'only' 7 civs is foolish at this point in time.

Well Imran, guess I will have to say this again: Despite the extensive previews that have emerged, there has been no mention of minor civs whatsoever. However, there has been mention of barbarians having encampements. This is what the minor civs are, Imran. Of course, if it turned out that I was wrong and there are in fact proper minor civs that can be used as separate nations for scenarios, I would take back all my complaints about the 7 civilization limit , since minor civs would solve the problem. As things stand now, though, I am rather certain I am correct on the subject of minor civs and so the 7 civilization limit is hurting...

[Roman]

quote: Originally posted by aCa on 05-01-2001 05:52 AM I have my thrust in Sid and the FIRIFAX team

Please, lets not use cult of personality as an argument.

[yin26]

Ummm, try Sid's track record then. As for Sid as a person, he's rather reclusive and seemingly control-freakish when its HIS project (and not just his name on the box). But the results speak for themselves over the years.

[Roman]

Despite what many of you would believe, Sid is only human and can make mistakes. An example of such a mistake is the 7 civilization limit.

[jdlessl]

quote: Originally posted by Roman on 05-01-2001 06:34 AM Despite what many of you would believe, Sid is only human and can make mistakes. An example of such a mistake is the 7 civilization limit.

Sure, but we're up to 4 pages of posts now detailing how unhappy fans of his games are with this limit. Mistakes are one thing, ignoring your customers on an important topic quite another.

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Jared Lessl

[aCa]

I don't belive you Roman...... no way his human..... HE IS GOD ..... j/k

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aCa (a Civilization addict)