Which civs should be in?

[Mathphysto]

My picks:
Great Ancient Civs:
Egyptians
Indians
Chinese
Persians
Greeks
Romans
Mayans (the Greece of the Ancient Americas)

Great Renaissance/Industrial Civs:
England
France
Spain
Mongols
Byzantines (Constantinople was the light of the Western World during the Dark Ages)

Great Modern Civs:
Americans
Russians
Japanese
Germans

Now just try and tell me that the bleeding Celts, or Apaches, or Vikings should be on here, and I'll tell you a little something. None of them affected the course of human history on so grand a scale as any of the civs I listed. The Apaches were just another name on a long list of victims of disease and greed. The Viking raids didn't last that long, didn't afflict many people, and they eventually settled down and were assimilated into the British culture. And the Celts had their butts whooped on their own turf just like so many other cultures around the world. One could make a better argument for the Gauls or Huns as being significant in history (their impact in the early Dark Ages on the rise to power of the Roman Catholic Church was immense), but they still lacked the longevity and magnitude of the other civs on my list. I'll put them on my list of the top five alternate civs:
Huns
Gauls
Carthaginians (I was tempted to put the Phoenicians instead, but they were really just Mediterranean middle men, and made money doing so)
Ottomans (major players before WWI)
Muslims (not really a civ, but Mohammed's Jihad was very crucial to history)

[Mathphysto]

Antonios - there has been some speculation that the Phoenicians may have made it to South America around 300 BC, if I remember correctly. But I have never ever heard anything about Greeks sailing to the New World!!

And what is this about Greek pyramids? If you're talking about building square tetrahedrons out of stone, I'm sure Greeks weren't the first. It's so common a symbol across all cultures that I'm sure its origin predates the Greek or even Mycenean cultures - but I may be wrong about that.

And Greeks weren't the first to appreciate thinking: Indians had developed greater mathematics and architecture that even the Greeks never discovered, and provided much of the basis for science and philosophy in Persia and Greece. It's just that the Greeks killed the Persians, and the Indians suffered from isolation, so couldn't directly impact the Western world. So from the modern Westerner's point of view, Greek science and culture is incorrectly seen as the first to appreciate the power of thought.

This isn't to say that the Greeks didn't have a magnificent science and culture, merely that it wasn't the first, or even necessarily the best of its day.

[Mister Pleasant]

If we're going by the criteria of (1) Massive area (2) actually having recognizable cities (3) Power of their time, then we have to have the Incas. There empire was huge (Equador to Chile, incl. Peru and Boliva), they were a terror to their neighbors and had recognizable cities, many of which like Cuzco are still cities today.

For that matter, the Turks or Ottomans have to be in. Huge, powerful, with contributions to science, philosophy, and cultural stuff.

And kick out the Mongols. Gengis led nomadic warriors (lacking recognizable cities). And Khubli tried so hard to be chinese, he might as well be considered a dynasty for game purposes.

Kick out the Sioux/Apache/etc. Again, no cities. For some strange reason, the native americans prone to building cities resided in the southwest (Anasazi/Pueblo). But the Aztecs pretty well cover this end of the continent.

Mali makes more sense than the Zulus. (this was the BIG medieval African power). Mansa Musa built a huge empire and destabilized the world gold market (which earned the greedy attention of those to the north of the Sahara . . . )

The Carthaginians were big, but other than being conquered by the Romans, I'm not sure there's much else to say.

Vikings? Lose them - see mongols above.

My revised list:

Must be in: Romans, Americans, Russians, Chinese, Indian, Incan, Aztec, British, French, Mali, Turks, Spaniards, Egyptian

Runner Ups (3 go in): Germans, Brazil, Cathaginians, Persians, Portugese, Japanese, Babylonian/Sumerian/Assyrian, Canadians (wild card), Argentina (wild card)

Should be out: Mongols, Zulus, Native Americans w/o cities, Vikings

And as I said before, later barbarians should be terrorists: Sendero, ETA, IRA, Michigan Freemen, even the ELF.

[Bereta_Eder]

Can we for a minute stop wishing and look at the facts as we know them by now?

SO

GREEKS ARE IN
AMERICANS ARE IN
GERMANS ARE IN
CHINESE ARE IN
ROMANS ARE IN
FRENCH ARE IN
RUSSIANS ARE IN
ZULUS ARE IN

Now, please fill in the rest ONLY if you know the specific screenshot and / or text by articles or the web site of Firaxis or anything else that tells you so.

[This message has been edited by paiktis22 (edited May 13, 2001).]

[Pedrun]

Paiktis22, Call the american British and change the Zulu. You just chose the civs for a European scenario.

[Bereta_Eder]

quote: Originally posted by Pedrun on 05-13-2001 10:35 AM Paiktis22, Call the american British and change the Zulu. You just chose the civs for a European scenario.

Pedrum I don't understand what you said.

BTW, the civs I posted are the ones that are definitely in CIV 3 according the snapshots and Firaxis statements.

Do we know for sure about any others?

[tniem]

quote: Originally posted by paiktis22 on 05-13-2001 02:30 PM Pedrum I don't understand what you said. BTW, the civs I posted are the ones that are definitely in CIV 3 according the snapshots and Firaxis statements. Do we know for sure about any others?

Pretty sure England is in. Screen shot of Elizabeth next to Lincoln and Mao in the gallery section on the Firaxis website.

[bagdar]

If we'll have the Turks in the game, please don't make the buildings/theme music/whateverelse look or sound Arabic. This happens all the time, everywhere. (Including CrapToPlay) Come to Istanbul and you'll see that Ottoman architecture looks clearly Byzantine so: no Arab-Persian-Indian Domes.

Anyway, I'm happy with the present civ-set, no further alterations.

[Bereta_Eder]

Thank you Tniem.

So we have:

GREEKS ARE IN
AMERICANS ARE IN
GERMANS ARE IN
CHINESE ARE IN
ROMANS ARE IN
FRENCH ARE IN
RUSSIANS ARE IN
ZULUS ARE IN
ENGLISH ARE IN

[C. Gerhardt]

Maybe we are forgetting a "civ"?

What about the Firaxians from Firaxis.
They are becoming a world threat by there upcoming invention called CivIII.

As I can see the world as emerged into WW III. (Or so to speek)

Whe can also place mythical civs like Atlantis and Leprechauns or even Science Fiction like the Martians in the game?

All I know is that Sid makes the final desicion!!!

Live long and prosper!

[Maxxes]

I'm afraid we will be playing the Firaxians ourselves with all those look-a-like advisors

[Vrank Prins]

Here's my list based on history
In order of chronological appearance.[list=1][*]chinese[*]indians[*]egyptians[*]mesopotamia (stands for babylonians/assyrians/sumerians/phunicians etc.)[*]persians[*]greeks (stands for minoians(crete)/mycenians/sparta/athens/hellenistic world of Alex.t.G.)[*]romans[*]arabians[*]incans[*]mongols[*]aztecs (stands also for mayans, toltecs etc.)[*]spain[*]ottomans (turks) (günaydin bagdar !!!)[*]english[*]french[*]americans[*]japanese (stands for the asian western rim of the pacific)[/list=1]
I'm very persistent about the arabians. There role in history has always been and still is obscured in western writings because of the (one could say allmost traditional) rivalry and competition between the arabian and the european world over a very long period of time. But they really have been of great importance to development of all the world.

My guess is that the geographical spread on the map of CIV's will also be of importance. In that case I would drop the persians, the ottomans and french and replace them by the zulus, just to have a CIV deep down south in Africa), the russians to have a CIV in more-or-less Europe, and the timbuctuans (is that correct anglo ????? nowerdays Burkina Fasso) in the northwest of Africa.

If the vikings are in, then I think the portugese and the dutch ought to be in there as well, being important naval and trading CIV's too.

[tniem]

Originally posted by Vrank Prins
I'm very persistent about the arabians. There role in history has always been and still is obscured in western writings because of the (one could say allmost traditional) rivalry and competition between the arabian and the european world over a very long period of time. But they really have been of great importance to development of all the world.

I have to agree again, the Ottomans/Arabs/Turks whatever must be included in Civ III.

If the vikings are in, then I think the portugese and the dutch ought to be in there as well, being important naval and trading CIV's too.

Not sure you want to open up that can of worms. Where do you draw the line? Do you include the Portugese and Dutch for being traders and forget the Phoenicians/Carthaginians?

[Arator]

The DEFINATIVE Civ List!

My ideal would be the following 32 civs (* indicates my TOP 16):

Ancient: Egyptians Babylonians Persians Romans Carthagenians Ancient/Medieval/Modern: Israelis* Greeks* Celts* Germans* Chinese* Indians* Medieval: Vikings Mongols Aztecs Incans

Medieval/Modern: Arabs* Turks English* Spanish* Portuguese French* Dutch Danish Russians* Polynesians Zulus* Austro-Hungarians Italians Japanese* Modern: Iroquois* Americans (with a "Yankee only" toggle)* Confederates*

[Stefu]

Heck, as long as we are sailing on the Fantasy Island, here would be my 32 civs:

Americas:

Americans
Aztec
Mayas
Inca

Africa:

Carthagians
Egyptians
Mali
Zulus

Central Asia:

Mongols
Chinese
Japanese
Koreans

Southern Asia & Australia:

Indians
Siamese
Javans
Australians

Middle East:

Arabs
Turks
Babylonians
Persians

Northern Europe:

Vikings
English
Germans
Dutch

Southern Europe:

French
Spanish
Romans
Greeks

Eastern Europe:

Russians
Poles
Hungarians
Finns (You can guess my nationality )