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Let me play the dark civ: Barbarians

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  • Let me play the dark civ: Barbarians

    Ok, lot of us are speculating about number and name of Civ to play with.
    I want to propose a silly idea (I mentioned the same about SMAC and Native Lifeform, if someone remember the old days of OWO forum... never mind ).

    Firaxis is doing some interesting change to Barbarians role, but I'm afraid they are missing the interesting possibility to have human players chose Barbarian as his/her Civ to play with.

    Think about it: they are the most different Civ in game, different rules and limits, different targets... They are the darkest force in the game (they kill, pillage, destroy, they found encampment but never proper cities). They have a different target from every other Civ in game... but they are wandering without a proper leader.

    If in a multiplayer game a human player can chose Barbarians, he/she can really become a serius opponent as barbarian in early game, mercenary/pirate in middle and international terrorist in late game.
    He/she can act a bit like a game master, because it can "change the game balance" making secret pacts with regular Civ.

    But also in a single game could be interesting to see a human brain at work instead of limited AI, leading barbarians. Heck, at least it will put that 8th unusable Civ at work!

    He/she can't develop cities but, like old Civ 2 fundamentalism, have some special benefit building/recruiting troops.
    He/she can gain money by pillage and ransom, capture resources raiding towns and mines/worked fields.
    Can't research, but can stolen some (mostly the military, to keep up with current armies level of proper Civ.

    Barbarians could win destroying all others Civ or making a secret pact with a proper Civ that win the game in usual way.

    I understand it's not likely to really see Firaxis modify the game to let player use the barbarians, because they are used for random events and as a way to balance the game, but if I can still dream...

    Well, someone else of you will enjoy a ride on the dark side of Civ?
    "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
    - Admiral Naismith

  • #2
    Sounds like a great idea.

    ------------------
    Its okay to smile; you're in America now
    "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

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    • #3
      Admiral, I think that's an awesome idea. Barbarians tradionally played a large roll in history (they ended the Roman empire for example!!) and it would be good fun to play as them. It wouldn't be that hard to implement, would it? Let's hope Firaxis take notice of this interesting idea.
      If the voices in my head paid rent, I'd be a very rich man

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      • #4
        Could the Mongols be the barbarian civ? damn I really want to play that civ and destroy all the advanced and arrogant civilisations who dare to oppose me. hah hah!

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        • #5
          Shades of Conan, Youngsun?
          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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          • #6
            quote:

            Originally posted by Adm.Naismith on 05-02-2001 06:19 PM
            He/she can't develop cities but, like old Civ 2 fundamentalism, have some special benefit building/recruiting troops.
            He/she can gain money by pillage and ransom, capture resources raiding towns and mines/worked fields.
            Can't research, but can stolen some (mostly the military, to keep up with current armies level of proper Civ.


            What about no need to support units? How else could one get barbarian hordes?

            (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
            (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
            (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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            • #7
              quote:


              What about no need to support units? How else could one get barbarian hordes?



              As far as it's not an unbalancing rule, why not?
              But balancing IS critical if a human brain and not a limited AI can lead Barbarians: surely any human player with too much power into his/her hands will pillage to desert every opposing Civ, isn't that true Gengis Khan Youngsun?

              Ok, we are not sure about future Barbarians rules (encampment is currently the only news about them). Now, if they'll merge the same role of previus huts and barbarians hordes, give them to the human player can be a problem, but if they add limited diplomatic relations, trades and the likes, they surely can fit proper commands here and there.

              Another suggestion: if the Barbarian is succesful enough, they'll probably will raid city and sometimes they can conquer too (the AI is able to do it, so I bet most of human players would too ).
              The game could pop up the player a choice for:
              1) raid, pillage and gain money, turning the city back to originary Civ and stay as barbarian,
              or
              2) change attitude and restart as a normal Civ keeping the conquered city(as long as a Civ slot is available, e.g. replacing a destroyed Civ) and leaving back the barbarian contol at AI as usual.
              This way a player can "evolve" its path into the game, as s/he like! Doesn't sound great?


              ------------------
              Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant
              "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
              - Admiral Naismith

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              • #8
                Hello, Urban Ranger!

                I actually made an attempt to play the barbarians by editing a saved file when I played civI.
                Barbarian civ code was "0" and the white colored civs(Roman, Russian) had code "1" and so on.
                But when I loaded the saved file, something very funny things happened and I never did that again.
                It'll be really fun to play the hordes to plunder the wealth of other civilisations.

                quote:

                Another suggestion: if the Barbarian is succesful enough, they'll probably will raid city and sometimes they can conquer too (the AI is able to do it, so I bet most of human players would too ).The game could pop up the player a choice for:
                1) raid, pillage and gain money, turning the city back to originary Civ and stay as barbarian,or
                2) change attitude and restart as a normal Civ keeping the conquered city(as long as a Civ slot is available, e.g.replacing a destroyed Civ) and leaving back the barbarian contol at AI as usual. This way a player can "evolve" its path into the game, as s/he like! Doesn't sound great?


                nice suggestion Admiral! I had the same thought long time ago.
                While barbarians are not allowed to accumulate their culture points(or slower accumulation), they may have advantage in military like all male population represents workers(hunter,shepherd and gatherer)as well as superb warriors.

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                • #9
                  I like it.

                  Should you have to pay 100 gold every time you lose a Diplomat?
                  Creator of the Civ3MultiTool

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                  • #10
                    quote:


                    Nice suggestion Admiral! I had the same thought long time ago.



                    Good! So far only nice agreements to our "silly" proposal

                    Just for a check, anyone thinking it'll be a bad idea?
                    May be unbalancing in a way we are missing, or bad for game popularity (it seems in Italy there is now another media "crusade", starting against games that let you play "bad side" ).

                    Any game developers working for a big "F" company that will cut all this chat, confirming it will be a programming nightmare?

                    ------------------
                    Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant
                    "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                    - Admiral Naismith

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                    • #11
                      I've given some thought to this one myself as well. Barbarians of course wouldn't need cities but live off the land. Their units represent their entire population, so sending one into battle means he won't be raising little young'in barbarians back home. This, inciedntally is how a lot of barbarian waves get started. A couple of tribes do very well and experience a population boom. They try to expand their territory and, outnumbering their enemies, are often successful. The displaced barbs must pack up and leave, putting pressure on yet another group, and the cycle continues. At least, until the hordes reach civilization, which is like dropping a brick on a glass.

                      So, to exist without cities, barbarians need to have limits on their population density, which forces them to expand. They can go on punitive expeditions for wealth and plunder, but this is usually only safe to do when back home is overpopulated.

                      The tricky thing is that as the barbarian Civ leader, you wouldn't control all the tribes. Really, the only way to do it correctly is have multiple barbarian civs and you can control one of them. The AI needed for these would be orders of magnitude simpler than that needed for a normal civ. And you get lots more barbarian options, like a civ (normal Civ) could then hire a tribe (barbarian civ) to do various things, like protect a piece of the frontier, attack a another civ or tribe, or serve as irregular mercenaries in your armies. Great for sacking an enemy city!

                      Help me out, name some good barbarian tribes we could use.
                      Vandals, Visigoths, Mongols, Hyskos...

                      --
                      Jared Lessl
                      [This message has been edited by jdlessl (edited May 03, 2001).]

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                      • #12
                        quote:

                        Originally posted by jdlessl on 05-03-2001 08:59 AM
                        I've given some thought to this one myself as well.



                        Good! We are becoming a crow, agreeing about this concept. I wonder why Firaxis isn't already developing the code

                        quote:


                        Help me out, name some good barbarian tribes we could use.
                        Vandals, Visigoths, Mongols, Hyskos...



                        My God, I have trouble remembering their names in Italian, not to mention in English!

                        Huns?

                        ------------------
                        Admiral Naismith AKA mcostant
                        "We are reducing all the complexity of billions of people over 6000 years into a Civ box. Let me say: That's not only a PkZip effort....it's a real 'picture to Jpeg heavy loss in translation' kind of thing."
                        - Admiral Naismith

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                        • #13
                          Franks, Scots, Welsh, Flemish, Apache...
                          (\__/) 07/07/1937 - Never forget
                          (='.'=) "Claims demand evidence; extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence." -- Carl Sagan
                          (")_(") "Starting the fire from within."

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                          • #14
                            I want to introduce something new guys.

                            I was just thinking: Barbarians are very cruel and do nothing but attack and pillage.
                            I like that: its fun to kill them. But i think there should be a more powerful force behind them. Something that is totally secret. You cant even see the unit or whatever until it attacks you(i would suggest it wont be very powerful). Appears very rarely and unexpectedly. no outside communication and nothing that makes it visible. Just a dark force with armys appearing in dangerous places

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                            • #15
                              the Huns(Hsiung-nu?) :Nomadic
                              the Tatars : Nomadic
                              the White Huns(later Avars) :Nomadic
                              the Allans : Nomadic
                              the Bulgars :Landed
                              the Celts :Landed
                              the Teutons :Landed
                              the Norse(later Normans) :Maritime
                              the Picts :Landed
                              the Franks :Landed
                              the Swabians :Landed
                              the Gauls :Landed
                              the Goths(Visigoths and Ostrogoths) :Nomadic
                              the Vandals :Maritime
                              the Langobards :Landed
                              the Alamanni :Landed
                              the Marcomanni :Landed
                              the Cherusci :Landed
                              the Saxons:Maritime
                              the Angles:Maritime
                              the Jutes :Maritime
                              the Frisians:Maritime
                              the Inglings:Maritime
                              the Burgundians:Landed

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