The Perfect Civ List

[Cyclotron]

The Inca civ is needed for geographical reasons; it bothers me that there is no south American civ. How important they are historically matters less than geographical concerns... since this is, after all, a game.

[Quintrala]

Originally posted by XarXo
Don't worry, your chilean civ sure will appear the day that a Civilization game has 100 or more countries.

get a life... besides there are modpacks so we can get "our chilean civ" now, don't worry about it.

Again i'm with U Chilean Presi and with you cyclotron7. The Incas should be an official civ in the game, and the Mayas too.
From Africa, actually I don't know too much. (I have serious lack of knowledge from that continent! ) . But I hope that Civ4 could have lots of civs from all over the world and a good editor to build some new civs if the game don't have them officialy.

[Underseer]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
The Inca civ is needed for geographical reasons; it bothers me that there is no south American civ. How important they are historically matters less than geographical concerns... since this is, after all, a game.

I agree completely. More and more we're finding that South America produced advanced civilizations earlier than anyone thought. That's surprising when you consider that South America was the last continent to be colonized by humans.

Of the ancient South American civilizations, the Inca are clearly at the top of the list. Experts are still scratching their heads trying to figure out how they built such large, sturdy structures with mortarless masonry, and the Inca had incredible organizational skills.

Like you said, South America should have at least one civ on the list for geographical reasons. "Significance" be damned.

Oh, and XarXo? While I agree that ancient civs should be included before modern ones (e.g. Inca before Chileans), before you get too puffed up over yourself, remember this: at least the South Americans developed civilization on their own. Europeans didn't "get" civilization until it was forced on them by conquering Mediterranean empires.

[Cyclotron]

I don't know about the Mayas. It's arguable that they were as important as the Aztecs or Incas, but I doubt that fitting two civs in central America would be a good idea.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
I don't know about the Mayas. It's arguable that they were as important as the Aztecs or Incas, but I doubt that fitting two civs in central America would be a good idea.

The Mayans were the most advanced civilization in the entire Western Hemisphere, much more so than the Aztecs and the Incas. The Mayan calendar, invented hundreds of years ago is actually more accurate than the calendar we use today.

The only good case I see for not having the Mayans is that the Aztecs are already in the game. Fine. But leaving out a Southamerican civ whether it be indian or modern should be rectified in the next installment.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Grandioso

Anyway is nicer to have a future to write in history than look back to see the former glory.

couldn't be more in agreement.

WE ARE NOT INDIANS!!! THE AZTEC, INCA, ETC EMPIRES DIED OUT CENTURIES AGO. We are pround of our indian heritage but Latinamericans, as a civilization are the mixture of spanish and indian cultures. It therefore constitutes an entirely new culture which has nothing to do with either.

[pedrojedi]

The Inca civ is needed for geographical reasons; it bothers me that there is no south American civ. How important they are historically matters less than geographical concerns... since this is, after all, a game.

And this is the chief argument why I agree with the existence of a South American Civ. It is a GAME, for crying out loud. That's why we can Edit our own civ.

If I decide that Brasil should be a civ, so I do it the way I want. If Chilean President decides to put Chile in the game, it's his call. So Manya, and so South killer with their respective countries (Uruguay, Argentina).

Historical significance should NOT be a barrier for us putting a culture or another. I never heard about the Iriquois, and AFAIK, they did not change the destiny of the Americas. They had their rites (great!), they had their knowledges (great!), but they did not leave a mark on world history - just go out in the streets and ask about them to regular people. Only USA people and guys who like pre-colombian history shall know about them.

The same argument goes for Africa. People know about Egipt. People may know about Zulu. And that's it. Even if you come saying about "a rich and florescent tribe that prospered about 4.000 years ago" no one shall know it. That is the hallmark of world impact.

Any civilization that leaves its mark in the world appears in some of the smallest or most simple way. Take the signs of the zodiac, our numbering system, our alphabet, gunpowder, or, for the lovers of south america, the concept of zero for mathematics.

I really don't know what you are trying to accomplish here, XarXo, but surely it seems to be some kind of trauma that you had while staying around.

[XarXo]

Trauma?

I just think that there are lots of interesting civs out of Europe that should have a place in a Civ game before Chile or a latinoamerican civ.

Civ is a game of 6000 years, is quite pathetic look B. Franklin with furs at 4000 BC just because Firaxis doesn't implemented a system of independence movements.

Chile, Paraguay and these countries have some history to offer, but countries like Kazakhstan, Tibet, Afghanistan, Mali, Nubia or similar have a more interesting position in my point of view.

Chile seems to me like Papua New Guinea with a good economic/social development level.

This is the reason why I think that the civ list is simply incorrect.

NOTE: If I edited some posts isjust because I don't want to be rude. I know that usually I'm quite annoying (not always, this is what I believe ).

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

Originally posted by XarXo
Chile seems to me like Papua New Guinea with a good economic/social development level.

anyway if Papua New Guinea have the development, economic strenght and political freedoms that Chile have, let me tell you, PNG should be on a Civ game

Nations or empires with a world historical background should be on a civ game. But, history is important for the people who live in those countries. Tibet is not quite important for me, besides they do have great cultural achievements, as for you, Chile (without considering the araucanos culture, the former Easter Island Kingdom, plus the rich history of Chile post independence) and other american countries are not important.

I'm with Quintrala and Pedrojedi. We have an editor to create our own civs, so that's no problem.
But I do understand that some countries are important for some people and others are less important, but that doesn't mean that this last ones do not have a valuable history background, cultural achievements or a good social an economical developement.

Cyclotron: You're right! It would be hard to have 2 civs in central america. Anyway the Mayas are kind of mysterous and we do not know too much of them. Maybe they even help to build some part of the Aztecs Empire.

But I repeat, (the same thing that Pedrojedi has said) Historical significance should NOT be a barrier for us putting a civ, just because "historical significance" is a really subjectif matter as I point before.

[Odin]

Here is my civ list for civ4:


Ancient Middle East

Babylonians/Sumerians
Egyptians
Phonecians
Persia


Classical Mediterranian

Greece
Rome


Europe

Scandinavians
Great Britain
France
Germany
Russia
Celts
Poland


Asia

Arabia
Turks
India
China
Mongols
Khermers


Africa

Mali
Ethiopia


Americas

Native Americans
Aztecs
Mayas
Incas
US
Argentina

[Dr. Nick]

Or maybe its better to say, the countries of south america dont seem more distinct from one another, than the states of the US seem distinct from one another; and then the US from britain.

This is rich

Ehem , no one CULTURE produced AFTER Industrial Revolution could be assigned to ANY country, so speak about architects, nobel prizes and other is quite useless except in the case that a very specialized branch of a global movement develop a knowledge that originates a wonder, this is: Tour Eiffel, for example.

This is the most ignorant thing I've heard in years. Argentine culture was created as from 1880s because of the 'aluvion inmigratorio' when the mass immigration began after the conquest of the 'desierto'. Jesus christ, if you're going to post opinions make sure they aren't total BS first.

Of the ancient South American civilizations, the Inca are clearly at the top of the list. Experts are still scratching their heads trying to figure out how they built such large, sturdy structures with mortarless masonry, and the Inca had incredible organizational skills.

No, you're talking about the Nazca and Aymara.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Odin
Here is my civ list for civ4:
Africa

Mali
Ethiopia

No Zulu?

Americas

Native Americans
Aztecs
Mayas
Incas
US
Argentina

Like I said, IMO the Mayas and Aztecs, while being worthy civs, would be too cramped together to be viable on a typical world map. Additionally, if I had to choose between Argentina and Brazil for a "modern" S. American nation, I would choose Brazil.

This is out of character for a Yank like me to say, but doesn't anybody else think we need the Canadians in to fill that big, lonely space up north?

[Chilean Presidentâ„¢]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
This is out of character for a Yank like me to say, but doesn't anybody else think we need the Canadians in to fill that big, lonely space up north?

I do.. I think that another "big" civ should be in North America besides the US and the Aztecs (that are nearest central america and they tend to expand to south america) as a response to the USA, and to do more difficult and competitive the expansion for you guys

[Master Zen]

The Eskimos!!!

Anyway, I still think that there should be a Latinamerican civ, leader Bolivar, UU an improved guerrilla, perhaps Religious/Commercial or Industrious, which would represent all our countries in modernity.

I would actually prefer to play as this civ than the Aztecs!

Oh and before I forget,

XarXo:

the next time you compare countries like Chile and Papua New Guinea, I would advise you to read stuff like the U.N. Development Project or at least the CIA Factbook so you can actually acertain what level of prosperity and development they are in.

[Yanghead]

The perfect civ list:

1. Generic Industrius Civ w/ Infantry UU
2. Generic Industrius Civ w/ Cavalry UU
3. Generic Industrius Civ w/ Modern UU
4. Generic Commercial Civ w/ Infantry UU
5. Generic Commercial Civ w/ Cavalry UU
6. Gener....


End of Argument.