I am no longer your moderator...

[MarkG]

perhaps you didnt read this part

quote: a moderator is not a simple poster. his position is totally different and dictates certain things regarding his behaviour

[Tiberius]

Sorry Mark, but from your discussion with Yin I felt that you are angry on him because he poped up a topic that could possibly harm Firaxis.

In my opinion, moderator or not, Yin (or anybody else) should have the right to criticize, even developers or Apolyton administrators (and he didn't even do that, just posted a sensitive topic).

If this special rule ("don't upset developers"), applies only for Apolyton moderators, I still don't agree, but your site, your rules. Just don't count on me as a moderator (now this will cause you serious ROTFL )

Oh, Yin: don't be sad; you actually won here. You are now free to speak!

[kolpo]

I don't want this site to be a hype site(it is very close to this currently) but I want it to be a discussion site. Firaxis already has it's own hype site which works and worked so good that I saw quite nothing else then meaningless hype posts here. Yin did a good job by posting a subject to make this agian a discusion site instead of a hype site. And now got he heavily punished for some very minor offence.

In fact are people who find all things that could possibly go wrong in a game and post them the most usefull kind of people for a company, because they can learn from them.

And the fact that he shouldn't post critic because he is a moderator does me think about Stalin who fired all generals who didn't thought exactly as him before world war 2 because after all : Generals should follow a more strick code of conduct them common people. Don't they ?

*is affraid because he realizes him he has offended the party leaders of the communistic ... eh I mean firaxis party*

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by Tiberius on 03-06-2001 10:44 AM Sorry Mark, but from your discussion with Yin I felt that you are angry on him because he poped up a topic that could possibly harm Firaxis.

if you read more carefully, you would see that i didnt have a problem with him starting a discussion on bugs(the proof is the poll i myself started today) but with his choice to revive a dead issue(that of the jkm article)

[MarkG]

quote: Originally posted by kolpo on 03-06-2001 11:09 AM Yin did a good job by posting a subject to make this agian a discusion site instead of a hype site. And now got he heavily punished for some very minor offence.

a moderator posting private data is not a minor offence in my book

request to everyone: if you're going to comment, read the whole thing first

[MarkG]

nemo, the private message had nothing to do with firaxis(e.g. it was not something firaxis gave him or anything like that)

still...
kolpo, if i cant be sure that something i tell(no matter how constructive or unconstructive that is) someone in private will not come out in public, i cant work with him. i believe that there are a lot of people in democratic countries that think the same way

[kolpo]

oke I understand your point of vieuw but I disagree but I still like this site I just wanted to say that I disagree.
[This message has been edited by kolpo (edited March 06, 2001).]

[wittlich]

And like Mark stated before Kolpo - you're entitled to your opinion, just like everyone else (and now Yin has full entitlement to his too)

So, lets all shake hands and move on from here

[lord of the mark]

quote: Originally posted by kolpo on 03-06-2001 12:40 PM Because of the offensive non constructive tone of the message fail I to understand why it is so wrong to post that. There was also no clear written rule about that subject. I don't know any democratic country where someone can be punished for doing something that isn't clearly against the written rules. The only nations where things like that can happen are communistic and despotistic nations. And yes you have the complet freedom to rule this site on wathever unfair communistic way you want just like Sadam has the complet freedom to rule Irak like he wants, it is his country after all ? But just like with Sadam want I to say that the fact that it is his country(your server) doesn't make it good and doesn't change the fact that it is unfair.

Now this is just plain silly. Capitalist democracies respect private property, and servers and the websites that run on them are private property. the owner can do what he wants to on them, within the law. If the publisher of the New Republic magazine doesnt like the opions of his editior in chief, he's free to fire him (and did). Freedom of speech adheres in the publisher, not in the editor or reporter.(Usenet, which is sort of cooperative anarchy is a very complex case, but its not a website) In fact if the publsiher is prevented from firing whom he wishes, his freedom of speech is interfered with. You dont like the policies of this site, you can go to another one, or start your own. (far easier to start a website than a newspaper, say)

Lord of the mark

[lord of the mark]

this whole discusion is kind of silly.

If i had started a website, and someone whom i selected as moderator had a private disagreement with me, and then chose to take that disagreement to the forum, id be royally pissed. and i doubt id even patiently let that person keep posting about the argument on MY forum, as Mark is doing. hes a patient man, more than i would be.

Sheesh, what gaul.

And this is not about hypeing for the developer. I have taken issues with things ive seen Firaxis doing, from unique civs to unit graphics. I am confident Apolyton will still be open to such discussions.

And btw, the whole Morris article thread was misunderstood - he wasnt talking about forums like Apolyton so much as Usenet. (note the reference to deja) Have you guys ever been to Comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategy (sissy pigs?) it is more or less just the way Morris charecterized it. And csipg.war-historical is even worse - to the point where William Trotter wrote a column suggesting that the hyperpickiness of that Grognard usenet NG was harming the genre.

Lord of the mark

[the Apolyton Ayatollah]

Well, the overall impression I get reading all this is that MarkG cares a lot about the devopler's side than the communities side.

[kolpo]

I posted "And yes you have the complet freedom to rule this site..." I admited the fact that a website owner is allowed to run a website the way he wants and I said that I thought that the moderators are ruled here like in a depotistic country. So I don't see what you are attacking with your post.

A website owner is free to rule a website on a despotistic way because we are a capitalism but people are free to give there opinions about that owner because we are a democracy. The website owner can react on this by banning that person from his service. But the income of a website owner is often determinated by the number of people that go to that website and because of that is it much better to allow critic like Mark did(at least from normal members) for which I'm happy.
[This message has been edited by kolpo (edited March 06, 2001).]

[lord of the mark]

[quote]Originally posted by kolpo on 03-06-2001 02:41 PM
I posted "And yes you have the complet freedom to rule this site..." I admited the fact that a website owner is allowed to run a website the way he wants and I said that I thought that the moderators are ruled here like in a depotistic country. So I don't see what you are attacking with your post.


Im attacking your use of rhetoric like "communistic" "despotic" and "like Saddam". I suggest we all go on over to kolpo's house and vote on which of us should get to sleep in which room, and who should get first dibs on the food in the refrigerator. Now Kolpo has the right to be overide our votes and kick us out, but thats just being despotic and communistic, right?

Now it certainly is in marks interest, if he wants to keep this site popular, to allow open discussion of civ games. He hardly needs to keep it open to attacks on him. I for one, would not go elsewhere if mark chose to quash such things.

Lord of the mark
"Im paying for this microphone" Ronald Reagan

[CapTVK]

Hmmmm, I've read thread concerning the issue of bugs and don't see anything wrong with it. So what if the statement is almost 2 years old!? This is one of those issues that keeps coming back and is always worthy of debate. While i'm not a regular visitor of the civ3 forum so I don't know how well he moderated the forum. I do recall Yin26 being a poster who's ready to give his own view on particular subjects like the CtP2 debacle for instance.

I have a feeling that's the real reason for Yin being removed of his moderator privileges. The bug-thread with trolling accusations and private msg posting remark were just the excuse needed for Yin to get the sack.


And yes, it's Markos site. So he can do what he pleases. But a forum only is alive thanks to the individual efforts of the posters. And Yin's efforts were TREMENDOUS!


In the end I can only say this was a bad call MarkG, a very bad call...


And Kolpo:

I can't make heads nor tails from that post of yours. Try putting it a bit less bluntly :P
[This message has been edited by CapTVK (edited March 06, 2001).]

[kolpo]

A house and a big community website are mayb elegaly similar but are prcatically totaly different and can't be compared.