Outrageous

[BigDork]

Hi all. I was playing last night and things were going good. Well the Aztecs kept cutting through my land to beat up on the Arabs so I told them to leave. So what do they do? Declare war. Morons. Anyway, I ask ole' Hannibal if he wants to get in on the action too. We just fought a war so he was furious with me.

Okay, I'll get to the point. I asked him what he wanted for a military alliance again the Aztecs and he wanted 442gpt, 16550(or something close to that), several strategic resources and luxuries and some tech. Umm...no. Actually I found it kinda funny. Lets say that just as soon as the Aztecs were done I taught Hannibal a thing or two about negotiations.

Anyway, I'm kinda wondering what kind of outrageous demands you all have recieved too.

BigD

[Coracle]

Ridiculous and crazy demands and actions from the STUPID Diplomatic AI are typical in Civ 3.

I hated it when I would cut a good deal with a civ, and then, as a FREE BONUS, throw in SIX resources. The AI would insult me and cancel the deal. All that based on some alleged thing I did a thousand years earlier that caused a reputation hit (I never did it, actually). How stupid of the AI.

[Cyclotron]

C, your argument is idiotic. You refuse to see the logic pointed out to you in several threads. Adding per turn resources to an instantaneous trade, making it a 20-turn deal, may cause they AI to turn it down for very obvious reasons.

[aleion]

Originally posted by cyclotron7
C, your argument is idiotic. You refuse to see the logic pointed out to you in several threads. Adding per turn resources to an instantaneous trade, making it a 20-turn deal, may cause they AI to turn it down for very obvious reasons.

This is extremly true.

[Egbert]

Re: Outrageous

Originally posted by BigDork
Hi all. I was playing last night and things were going good. Well the Aztecs kept cutting through my land to beat up on the Arabs so I told them to leave. So what do they do? Declare war. Morons. Anyway, I ask ole' Hannibal if he wants to get in on the action too. We just fought a war so he was furious with me.

Okay, I'll get to the point. I asked him what he wanted for a military alliance again the Aztecs and he wanted 442gpt, 16550(or something close to that), several strategic resources and luxuries and some tech. Umm...no. Actually I found it kinda funny. Lets say that just as soon as the Aztecs were done I taught Hannibal a thing or two about negotiations.

Anyway, I'm kinda wondering what kind of outrageous demands you all have recieved too.

BigD

Under the circumstances, Hannibal was not being outrageous, he was saying "no". You just fought a war with him, why would he want to help you when he has good reason to prefer to knife you?

[BigDork]

Re: Re: Outrageous

Originally posted by peterfharris
Under the circumstances, Hannibal was not being outrageous, he was saying "no". You just fought a war with him, why would he want to help you when he has good reason to prefer to knife you?

I know he was saying no. And I understand why. But usually they just refuse. I've never seen the computer just ask for a hella lot of money before.

BigD

[Kingof the Apes]

I agree with you, BigDork. When I negotiate with civs I have had wars with in the past ~500 years, they tend to turn down most of my offers. Usually it's my allies who demand crazy prices.

[Hurricane]

Re: Re: Re: Outrageous

Originally posted by BigDork


I know he was saying no. And I understand why. But usually they just refuse. I've never seen the computer just ask for a hella lot of money before.

BigD

I guess you don't make 442 gpt and have 16500 gold all the time. They didn't refuse simply because you had so much money that they were willing to forget about your rivalry, but only for helluva price.

[Bonaparte]

No matter how you look at it the AI, at least as far as diplomacy is concerned, needs a lot of work. Enemies and allies usually make crazy demands even when they have no muscle to back up their words. They hold grudges for hundreds and thousands of years. Heck, I couldn't get a right of passage with greece in 1950AD, because I violated a right of passage with germany (I declared war on them) in 3100BC...that's just plain nuts!
I noticed that the AI civs usually never like me upon first contact and that it is very easy to piss them off, but almost impossable to keep them as good friends. I am used to this and usually build up enough power so that I don't need them and don't care if they are mad at me or not, but that's not how the game should be.

[Tattila the Hun]

Since you got so much money, maybe he though you could from some of it...

By 20th century, usually everybody is furious with me... Not to my blame... So alliances aren't cheap.

[aahz_capone]

it is outrageous that the AI will never negotiate with cities unless they are at war and about to die. In SMAC you could negotiate using cities during peace if the price was right and the city small enough.

Another thing is that when you offer to end a war in exchange for one of their techs, they say yes, and when you want to thorw in a tech of your own they won't take it. It's not like I'm limmiting this to 20 turns here...

[theNiceOne]

The reason that Hannibal wanted so much, is partly because he wasn't in a good position for the war, and partly because he had ongoing deals with the Aztecs that he didn't want to break.

I cannot see anything outrageous about not agreeing to a military alliance when it's not in your interest. I regularly turn down military alliance offers from AI civs as well.

[theNiceOne]

Originally posted by Coracle
I hated it when I would cut a good deal with a civ, and then, as a FREE BONUS, throw in SIX resources. The AI would insult me and cancel the deal. All that based on some alleged thing I did a thousand years earlier that caused a reputation hit (I never did it, actually). How stupid of the AI.

Coracle: If you really want to give the AI six free resources, why don't you finish the trade you both agree on, and then suggest a new trade that only involves you giving the resources for free? This will give the same result, except for one thing - It wouldn't give you any reason to complain about how stupid teh AI is(but since it seems that the latter is your only reason for being here, I understand that you won't follow my suggestion)

[theNiceOne]

Originally posted by aahz_capone
it is outrageous that the AI will never negotiate with cities unless they are at war and about to die. In SMAC you could negotiate using cities during peace if the price was right and the city small enough.

I wouldn't say outragous, but it would be nice with an intelligent AI negotiator with whom you could trade cities. It's good that the big city trade exploit in the original game was closed though.

Another thing is that when you offer to end a war in exchange for one of their techs, they say yes, and when you want to thorw in a tech of your own they won't take it. It's not like I'm limmiting this to 20 turns here...

Are you completely sure about this? IMHO, there are only three cases where the AI goes from accepting a trade to not accepting it when you adds something. Those three are:

1) If you add gold per turn above your current net income.
2) If you have a bad reputation and add gold per turn or a resource to a deal where the AI gives an instant goods (map/tech/gold).
3) If during a peace negotiation the AI agrees to give you a city, and you add anything.

[Alex]

These outrageous demands are due to the simple fact that the AI is an AI, not a human.