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**CornMaster** · September 17, 2000, 13:03

You got some pretty cool ideas there Darkcloud. Only 2 comments.
1. When a Civ would be able to build the internet and get other techs it seems like there wouldn't be much left to get.
2. And I hope the "triemmes have unlimited movement" for the light house it a typo. That is totally unrealistic.
But otherwise a very nice collection!!!

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Administrator of the CornEmpire Forum
My Civ 2 Scenario Page.

**The Call of Snapcase** · September 17, 2000, 16:12

I have to disagree with you completely on some of your choices. Especially the logical thinking behind them. Just a note: There are supposed to be seven wonders in each era. Anyway:

Temple of Zeus

Way too powerful. Potential game-breaker early in the game. Also, there is historically no "Temple of Zeus" wonder. I assume you mean the Statue of Zeus at olympia, one of the classical seven wonders.

Oracle

How will this work? In what way is a person more valid a wonder than your deleted list above?

Stonehenge

Again too powerful and not one of the classical wonders. As well as being pre-civ-timespan. Unless they extend it backwards to cover the stone age, I doubt this will be included.

Serpent Mound

Not a classical wonder. Where is (a) The Mausoleum at Helikarnassos, (b) The Colossus of Rhodos, (c) The Temple of Artemis, and (d) The Lighthouse at Faros? Sure, it's down below, but it's definately more of a classical wonder.

Sun-Tzu's war academy

Never existed. What makes it more valid than, say, Newton's College?

Hadrian's Wall

Let's face it, not a ground-breaking wonder. Rome did much bigger things.

King Richard's Crusade

Was not a wonder, it was bloody genocide.

J.S. Bach's Cathedral

Never existed. Or he had many.

Mozart's symphony

Which one? As well as being too powerful, this is not a "proper" wonder either.

Gold Rush

About as far as you can get from a wonder, really. And it's again overpowered. And the effects are quite the opposite to what happened.

Hoover Dam and Statue of Liberty

Enlightenment wonders? You gotta be kidding me?

Ford Motor Corporation

A wonder? There is already the "Mass production" technology... And this, too, is too powerful.

E=Mc^2

A wonder? Surely the General Theory of relativity was much more important? And again not a "proper" wonder.

The Bridges

Not that important, I'd say, as historical, world-renowned buildings.

SETI Program

Not a wonder, a bloody waste of money.

CN Tower

The world's highest building for, what, ten years before that Singapore one took over?

The Internet

Is surely not national. And why have a duplicate wonder?

Sydney Opera House + EU

Important modern wonders? Hardly.

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All of your deletions are bad, except possibly Adam Smith's Trading Company and Newton's College, two relatively minor institutions.

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Some nice ideas, though. I like the effect of the Hadrianus Wall, and the inclusion of the Transsiberian railway.

**DarkCloud** · September 17, 2000, 20:52

Yes the unlimited movement was a typo.

I could not find 7 wonders for each.

There WAS a Temple of Zeus and in it was the Statue of Zeus, one of teh 7 wonders of the ancient world.

The Oracle was both a person and a place, it would warn you when the computer would attack you next turn.

Stonehenge and Zeus are not too powerful.

The Colossus did nothing.

The mausoleum should be there but what would it do?

The lighthouse is there now, I flipped Serpent Mound and it.

Sun Tzu's stays.

Richard's crusade should have not been included in my list, sorry, another typo.

J.S. Bach performed in many cathedrals... It stands for that.

Well, I need something to replace Mozart's Symphony, any suggestions???

Well, the Statue of Liberty was built before the Industrial Age. Hoover should be moved however.

Ford stays, as does E=Mc2, the bridges, and the SETI Program: It is independent of government funds.

WHAT! The Internet is national. Roughly all countries have it. This is assuming one country patents the idea and it proliferates ideas.

Sydney and the EU stay.

My deletions stay.

-
Thank you for your corrections and praise.

**wernazuma** · September 17, 2000, 21:17

SETI-Project: The typical dud-wonder.

I’m of the opinion too that Civ3 needs by far more wonders, but then: make them a bit less powerful (I hate the so extremely powerful effect of Hoover-Dam) and make a 2-wonders/ city restriction. I generally have 3-4 cities with all the wonders inside.

I’ve seen a very, very large list of wonders in the long Apolyton wish-list for FIRAXIS.
Although I don’t like some of them it’s maybe more constructive to discuss a complete wonders-compilation on the base of those suggestions.

**Ribannah** · September 17, 2000, 21:31

Ok, here are a few more:

The 10 Commandments (monotheism)
- increases the speed of terrain improvement

The Red Cross (pharmaceutics)
- counts as a hospital in each city

The OPEC (refining)
- increases trade arrows from deserts and tundras (until Environmentalism)

Scotland Yard (automobile)
- replaces Women's Suffrage, same effect (wow, same idea as Shadowstrike )

Kruger National Park (ecology)
- increase happiness and reduces pollution

The Rainbow Warrior (ecology)
- a fleet of ships, able to block ocean cities' trade routes; attacking them is an atrocity

Biosphere 2 (environmentalism)
- counts as a biosphere (increases max pop) in every space colony

Camelot (chivalry)
- reduces the production costs of mounted units

Woodstock (telecommunication)
- all attainable techs will be available, instead of
the usual selection

Contraception (pharmaceutics)
- changes growth from "we love" days into an extra trade arrow

The Internet should simply replace SETI (same effect).

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If you have no feet, don't walk on fire
[This message has been edited by Ribannah (edited September 17, 2000).]

**Dienstag** · September 17, 2000, 22:41

Nit-picker's note: If The Goldrush increases treasury by 10% each turn, that means your treasury almost DOUBLES every 7 turns (isn't math great?). In 100 years you will have about 13,780 times as much money as you started with. If nothing else, this wonder would have to expire VERY fast, although I agree with The Call of Snapcase that The Goldrush just shouldn't be a wonder.

**Dienstag** · September 17, 2000, 22:43

DarkCloud, are you by any chance from Sydney?

**Imran Siddiqui** · September 18, 2000, 01:03

quote:

The Oracle was both a person and a place, it would warn you when the computer would attack you next turn.

I think the Oracle is dumb as well... it would be worthless in multiplayer for one..

**UltraSonix** · September 18, 2000, 03:11

quote:

If The Goldrush increases treasury by 10% each turn, that means your treasury almost DOUBLES every 7 turns (isn't math great?). In 100 years you will have about 13,780 times as much money as you started with...

I think what he meant was the civ's INCOME is boosted 10% (at least that's what I hope he meant...)

And Dienstag, what did you mean by:

quote:

DarkCloud, are you by any chance from Sydney?

'Cause us Melbournians no like Sydneysiders...

**Evil Capitalist** · September 18, 2000, 09:37

OK
Xerox Labs: Place that invented the transistor, amongst other things. +100% tech in host city

Empire State building: It has such an enduring appeal it has to be a wonder. Trade routes produce +100%

London underground: Mass Transit in every city

Versailles: All cities support one extra unit (2 under monarchy)

If we arn't getting Mr Smith's company then there should be something similar to give a trade advantage to Britain So: St Paul's Cathedral. All financial improvements cost nothing to maintain

GPS network: Plus one movement for ships

Nelson's Column: Plus one movement for ships (Outdates at around computers, allows realistic representation of shift of naval powers)

X planes plan: +1 movement for aircraft (X planes were the first to break the sound barrier in level flight)
[This message has been edited by Evil Capitalist (edited September 18, 2000).]

**Dienstag** · September 18, 2000, 13:39

Well, increasing income by 10% is much more reasonable, even though I still don't like the Goldrush wonder. Just build a city next to a Gold resource if you want more money...

I merely noticed that 2 of the proposed wonders are from Sydney, and thought that was a conspicuous increase from it's current total of 0. I'm sure Sydney's a really neat city, maybe even as neat as Melbourne , but it would be nice not to bunch all the wonders up from just a few places.

**wernazuma** · September 18, 2000, 15:21

Evil Capitalist: Your Versailles idea made me have another idea:
There could be wonders that make governments more efficient.
e.g.:
Sun-Pyramid of Teotihuacán: Despotism
Versailles: Monarchy
St. Peter’s Cathedral: Theocracy/ Fundamentalism
The Cultural Revolution: Communism
can’t think of one for Republic right now
Women’s Suffrage: Democracy

…and maybe other wonders could enable better SE-settings: KGB/ CIA for Police, Greenpeace for Ecology etc.

A word to the Gold-Rush Wonder: I agree, that the Gold Rush isn't a proper wonder and the reasons for the Gold-Rush had nothing to do with any tech-advance.
For a gold-rush you simply need:
a) Gold
b) The belief that gold is valuable
c) People that are willing to leave their homes and have the possiblities to leave.
That's it.

Az · September 18, 2000, 15:30

ok . ok . this is getting real weird . I hate looking at organisations and on Ideas as wonders of the world.

lets face it opec is no wonder of the world .
Sydney opera ??????????? .
and maybe some more . ???????????????
and what that might give ? +music talent for for each city ... damn .... you guys just can't get enough .

EU. ...... blah blah blah . and Alliance is NOT a wonder of the world .

hey well I know I am not being too constructtive here but .... some more stupid wonders :

the Kremlin : gives lots of big red walls everywhere... and another "very" on-topic plus:
all granaries account as ... city walls ... or maybe .... all roads acount as irrigation ... or accounts as a .......... city walls in every city .

the Kursk Submarine :

"hey that's not a WoW , it's a unit ! " damn right .
but a FREAKING BRIDGE also isn't a WoW ! it's a tile improvement .

the white elefant : does nothing . it's just white.

blah
blah
blah. .

I am really sorry for all that anger . It had to come out some day.

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We don't prohibit smoking . We discourage inhaling .

**DarkCloud** · September 18, 2000, 21:28

Ten Commandments- why would they increase the speed of terrain improvement?

Red Cross- It will be added to the list. (As an alternative wonder)

OPEC- Not really a wonder.

Scotland Yard- Okay... with reservations...

Kreuger National Park- I have never heard of this place.

The Rainbow Warrior, Biosphere 2, Camelot- Sorry, no.

Woodstock- Why all techs???

Contraception- I'll think about it.

-I'd say it, the internet, should not supplant SETI, but that's just my idea.

-Thank you for your many ideas Ribannah.

The Goldrush should mandatorily run out after 50 or 100 years.

Dienstag- Why do you ask?

Imran- True, it would be horrid in Multiplayer, but in Singleplayer it would be killer.

Xerox- No.

Empire State- Already Listed.

London Underground- I'll add it to the list

Versaiies- Could you please explain this idea more fully?

St. Pauls Cathedral- Infeasable effects.

GPS Network- Good idea.

Nelson's Column- What exactly was this? (I am ignorant)

X Planes- No.

-Thank you Evil Capitalist for your contributions in ideas.

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