The Map.... Again

[Sir Shiva]

OK, here's some of the better ideas I've come across for the map, plus a few of my own...

• *Resources not represented by tiles, but by 'areas'..
  *You should be able to go over the poles (not sure how to do this)
  *Elevation should be more realistic.. Mountains should not be tiles but areas of higher elevation.. Movement should be extremely slow, bringing mountain passes into play...
  *Landmarks should be named...
  
  *There should be different levels in the map.. What I mean is that units such as planes should be able to fly over ground units, and subs under sea units.. Subs would have to come colse to the surface to attack, tunnels should be buildable thru one level of earth under another etc..

Of course, if Firaxis could get the spherical world to work, it would be ideal..

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[UltraSonix]

These are some cool ideas! I especially agree that resources should be spread over an area, and that elevation should be done properly. Infact, the map should almost look like a map from an RTS game! However, a 3d engine should not be used to do this.

(Also just wanted to mention that you can already do landmarks in SMAC and so they'll probably have the feature in Civ3)

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited June 16, 2000).]

[Sir Shiva]

And another thing..

Perhaps instead of moves per turn, units could have movement points.. Movement over different terrains could cost different amounts of points..


PS.. I've decided that the selection for the EC3 list is totally arbitrary.. I've seen millions of GREAT ideas (many of my own ) just fade away from view...

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[Stuff2]

I'm not sure I really understand what you mean by 'areas'.
Do you mean that resources are spread out over several tiles?

[Sir Shiva]

By area i mean sets of co-ordinates..

Tiles would probably be obsolete. The map would be made up of points (co-ordinates). This way, cities could grow and shrink, resources get spread more realisiticaly etc.

One more thing, in Civ3, trees should have benefits like pollution control, rainfall control, flood control (calamities? start a thread please) etc.,so that trees aren't cut down indiscriminately..

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[Par4]

Whats a coordinate look like, I'm not exactly a tech person. can you describe it a little more please.

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I use this email
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Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
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[Stuff2]

quote: Originally posted by Sir Shiva on 06-14-2000 08:35 PM Tiles would probably be obsolete. The map would be made up of points (co-ordinates). This way, cities could grow and shrink, resources get spread more realisiticaly etc.

Ah...I see. I think i could like this idea.

[Sir Shiva]

Co-ordinate: Point, pixel if you like.. The map would be made up of thousands of pixels each with their own attributes (eg. movement cost 1 pt, 0.2 shields, 0.4 cash, 1 pollution) etc.

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-Shiva
Email: shiva@mailops.com
Web: http://www.crosswinds.net/india/~shiva
ICQ: 17719980

[Par4]

Oooh I like this shiva, I like this. The idea of having land areas not end so abruptly is intriguing. A sphere globe I'm not sure of, but real changes in elevation would be a great change. So if your troops lived by the water for a long time then went up high, they'd be out of breathe

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai

[UltraSonix]

Just wanted to repeat that Shriva's point on realistic elevation (ie need semi 3d graphics) was very good, but Par4, I think your:

quote: So if your troops lived by the water for a long time then went up high, they'd be out of breath

is probably not very workable...

(And wow Par4 - your sig's longer than your post!)

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...
[This message has been edited by UltraSonix (edited June 19, 2000).]

[Par4]

UltraSonix you knew I was just kidding right?

As for my sig, I've been watching food network tv too much lately

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai

[jdlessl]

Ok, I like that area-ed resources. Overlap of those areas would make for excellent complexities. A totally round map would be tough to do, but I'm sure there's some programming wizards who can come up with something. It'd be very realistic, anyway. But slower movement?!?! It's already a crawl! The Mongols could cross their empire inside of a year, but in the game it takes centuries to move units an equivalent distance. Normal infantry can march thousands of miles in the time it takes a game unit to go just one hundred.

For movement, something entirely new is needed. A system that allows units to move at a realistic speed but not allow them to 'be everywhere at once'. Like a supply line or communications limitations. The latter would be appropriate for pre-telecom eras: You give units orders and as soon as they're a certain distance from one of your cities, an AI takes control and tries to execute those orders and return to a friendly city. Any other ideas?

Jared

[UltraSonix]

Hmmmm...

Maybe a 3d-world (as in round, spherical world) could be done. It would still have tiles, but to acommodate the true-round world, the tiles have to be changed, ie tiles are different in different places. So the end result would be that on the default zoom for a normal size map, you'd see that the ground curves slightly so that the centre of your screen seems closer to you (it's a bit hard to describe). Zooming out would be you'll eventually be able to see half the globe, but with the result that everything's really small and things at the edges are hard to make out. Once you zoom out enough you'll also be able to see clouds, large cities, some wonders, etc, and it'll just be like what movies often do (like in the end of the Matrix)

The main problem that this round world poses is that small maps would look weird, as the world would be very small and any particular area being shown in the screen would look unacceptably curved.

I know that this almost requires a 3d graphics engine, but I'm still against having one. Anyway, here's some more food for thought.

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No, in Australia we don't live with kangaroos and koalas in our backyards...

[Par4]

I'm against anything too big my system will be minimum requirements in a few months. So a 3d world, maybe but I ain't got no money to upgrade I bought a kayak

------------------
I use this email
(stupid cant use hotmail)
gamma_par4@hotmail.com
Don't ask for golf tips
Your game will get worse
HappyLand
There is no spoon
-The Matrix
Let's kick it up a notch!!
-Emeril Lagasse
Fresh Soy makes Tofu so silky
-Ming Tsai

[Steve Clark]

Someone recently said that there are a number of civers, esp. from the Civ2-Strategy forum, who could play Civ WITHOUT graphics. For you youngsters, strategy games from the late 70s and early 80s were text-based. Remember, the AI does NOT need graphics to play and in a sense, neither do we. When it comes down to it, all we really need to know are the production numbers of the cities and the attributes of the units. For example, you have three 3/2/1 units going up against two 1/2/2 units on a hill. The program will determine the outcome and tell you the results. What they (and the terrain) looks like is irrelevant to game play. Obviously, nowadays that would not appeal to most gamers, including me. But my point is that the graphics are just for visualization and cosmetics, the game engine is all in the numbers.