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  • This is the first one of my reports about the openciv3 project. I will continue making these at least weekly, or more often if need arises.

    During the last weekend, we had two very useful meetings, and I am happy to report that we managed to kick the project well underway. In a month or so, we will have much more to tell you. Here are some things we have decided about, that might interest you:

    -the project's name, for now, will be openciv3. It's not final, and we will make a better one when the game is more finished, but this one will be used until that.

    -The game will not be a clone of any existing game, and neither a vision of civ3, but an ultimate open source empire-building game. What this means, we'll see.

    -One of the main features of the game will be an easy modification and extending. We hope to create a good documentation, so anyone can be developing this game to be the best TBS game.

    -The game will be turn-based. There are no plans about real-time game, but even if it will be used, the turn-based system will be an option. There has been some talk about the possibility of using simultaneous turns, but nothing has been decided about this, and we don't yet have any idea how this would work.

    -The AI will be one of our main concerns. We are hoping, that our game would eventually feature the best computer-opponent AI ever seen on TBS. Most game elements, like cities, units etc. will have some ai. This means, that the player will be able to set most things under computer control. The AI will be made as easily modificable as possible.

    -Map will be tile-based, and hexagon tiles are used. The map's main purpose is to be informational, but everything is done to make it good-looking.

    -Right now, I am personally working with the map system. I created a simple demo showing the possible map system that will be used. You can download it from my page at www.kolumbus.fi/amjayee. The demo map is small and I will make a better one, but perhaps it will give you an idea of what the map might look like. There's also the source of the demo in the zip, but it's not official and doesn't belong to the game yet.

    The map looks 3d, but it is actually only simulating a 3d-looking map on a planar surface. This will increase the performance of the game, and make it easier to place the cities etc. on the map. I think this is how it will be done in the final system, too. It will also be possible to turn off the height-mapping and allow the player to view the map in 2d. The tile borderlines are not visible right now, but there will be an option to turn them on.

    Later I plan to make a real 3d-map, that could be an option for the player, but right now I will concentrate on the system featured in the demo.

    Give me some feedback about the demo map, and also any suggestions about other game areas. This forum will be used for discussing
    the design issues, and at least I will be monitoring it daily. All ideas presented here will be heard by the openciv3 team. Also the list of ideas for Firaxis will form the basis for the final game system.

    Looking forward for good cooperation,
    amjayee
    a member of openciv3 team

    Comment


    • Also remember to check out the website at
      civ3.sourceforge.net, which is currently being uploaded and tell me waht you think

      Comment


      • Sorry, I accidentally submitted this message twice. Ignore this.
        [This message has been edited by amjayee (edited May 01, 2000).]

        Comment


        • Hmm.

          It seems that there's not much discussion taking place here lately. Oh well.

          But as I have promised, I will continue the reports. This idea got some positive comments among the team members. This hopefully shows you that the support of apolyton community is appreaciated, and we are willing to keep you well informed.

          Last weekend we had once again a very useful meeting. Many problematic programming issues were solved, and we managed to make some short-term plans. We hope they will lead to producing the first simple demo of the game-hopefully before June. It will propably contain only some UI graphics and a scrolling map, but it's a beginning...

          Now we hope to receive some feedback from you, and we'd like to see some discussion here. Korn and Joker, where are you?

          I know it's hard to comment when there's quite little to comment about, but I'll try and make a short description of what we have decided about the overall game design to this forum. Then you might get a better idea what's going on... Hopefully that will be available here in a few days.

          Cheers,
          amjayee

          Comment


          • I am still involved in this project. I am very pleased to hear that you are on to making a workable prototype.

            I know that I have not been very involved in this project lately, but as most of what is being done at this moment (or at least it was so when I last checked a few weeks ago) is initial programming issues. I am, as I have said, not a programmer, and I can therefor not be very helpful in this stage of the production phase. I can not help you in deciding whether to use C++ or Java (or whatever program languages you use), and most of the discussion taking place at this moment is about such things.

            I hope that the game will soon evolve into the phase where I can be of help - when you have made a workable prototype. I have a lot of ideas for the game, but they all require some foundation. We can not make sure the rise and fall of great powers are incorporated untill we actually have cities and production in the game.

            If you think that I can be helpful at this moment please tell me (by posting it here).

            I guess I will once again try to subscribe to SourceForge, and check out what you have been doing.
            "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
            - Hans Christian Andersen

            GGS Website

            Comment


            • i'm still here my schedule has really been hectic lately and things are still chaotic but they are finally beginning to settle down, however i can't attend the meetings on saturday because i usually work to around 7pm EST on saturdays (0100 GMT i think) so i have just assumed that the meeting have been over (and sometimes i work later...i usally work between 16 to 22 hours on saturday and sunday) but i will like to participate in a meeting soon...i just signed up for the source forge mailing list today but i have gotten some request mailing from them...not to join the mailing list but something to the effect that Jacob sent me a message or something...when i click on the URL it ask for some administration password that i don't have...i have like 270 egroups mailing list email in my saved email folder and i have only read about 100 of them, so if the password was sent out i missed it but things should be easing up in two weeks when school ends for the semester but yeah i have been in a lurker mode on the project, and hopefully i can get back to an active mode soon

              korn469

              Comment


              • Korn:

                Good to see you are still involved. Don't work too hard, take your time.

                The next meeting is on Sunday, 7.5.2000 at 21.30 GMT. It's held on undernet, #openciv3. It usually lasts until 0.00 GMT. Hope you can come there, though for now we are discussing mainly programming issues. There has been some talk about having a meeting only for design issues. Before that, we have to finish the game system and core component design. That will be done hopefully in a week or two. I will send here some more info then.

                About the sourceforge mailing list message, that's because there is some kind of limitation for the message length. The project administrator needs to change this setting. Heardie is unavailable though, for some days. We will get more administrators soon, but until that, ignore the message.

                I hope there will be more info available about the game system soon, so you can take part to the project.

                Cheers,
                amjayee

                Comment


                • Hi!

                  This message is mainly for bumping this thread. Things have been quite silent lately, since we have all been more or less busy. The main new thing we have talked about is that the game will use same kind of client/server approach as in freeciv and other games. This means the multiplayer is a natural way of playing the game. Of course ai and single-player game are also our main concerns. We will propably be using the multiplayer code in freeciv, which should make our work a little easier.

                  I have been working on a document of basic game system functionality. This would give you some idea of how the game system works, and you could be able to start working on the final game design. The main concern is to make the system as flexible as possible, so it would be possible to create a simpler, civ 1 like game, or a more complicated system, with the same engine. I can hopefully tell you more about this later. I have risen some design matters for debate on sourceforge. I'm waiting to see how the others are responding.

                  amjayee

                  Comment


                  • We have created a new forum in Alternate Civs section. So, if you'd like, we could continue the discussion there. It is quite odd to have this thread in civ3 suggestions forum anyway.

                    What has been done lately: things have been quiet, but very soon we are starting to code the first prototype of the game. Most propably it will not be a public demo, but that isn't very far away either.

                    We have been making decisions about an events system, that could be used for scenarios and ai. It is able to track any game/interface event and react to them by triggering any action in the game. This is done by using some kind of macro language. We will provide more info about this later.

                    We have also almost agreed to use dll's for ai programming. This will allow a far easier modification of ai. Also every civilization can have its own ai dll file, to allow it to react to events uniquely.

                    I hope we can make the game system description available soon, so you may better participate.

                    Comment


                    • Haleluja! I always thought we should have our own forum!

                      Why not make it a public demo?

                      I will be off to the forum and check it out.
                      "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                      - Hans Christian Andersen

                      GGS Website

                      Comment


                      • quote:

                        Originally posted by The Joker on 05-16-2000 08:25 AM
                        Why not make it a public demo?



                        The first prototypes will include only the partial game system. It is only meant for us to test the communication between the game components, and to make sure the components itself work. We wish that the public demos will have the full basic game framework working, even if they haven't got all the functions. But we'll see about that later. If it is good and works properly - why not to give it to some other people to check out, too? Perhaps we could be sending it via email to carefully selected audience. But as I said, we will discuss it when the prototype is actually working.

                        Ok, I will still be monitoring this thread now and then, but I think we should continue the discussion in the Alternative Civs forum.

                        Comment


                        • Never know what you discouver when you read these forums *lol*

                          I looked at the map generator, its pretty impressive. I even looked at some of the code, makes me remember why i hated C

                          How come the renderer doesn't use triple buffering, won't you get transistion delays? As for the AI, if someone felt like doing the all the processing in lisp(god forbid), he could compile it to a binary create a shell C+ DLL and then link it in?
                          Join the army, travel to foreign countries, meet exotic people -
                          and kill them!

                          Comment


                          • quote:

                            Originally posted by markusf on 05-17-2000 10:54 PM
                            I looked at the map generator, its pretty impressive. I even looked at some of the code, makes me remember why i hated C

                            How come the renderer doesn't use triple buffering, won't you get transistion delays?


                            The engine demo was only ment to be, well, a demo of a possible map drawing system. It is far from final, the code was only a tutorial project I found on the net and modified. The final map drawing system will be based on it, but enhanced a lot. It will also use many kinds of advanced technologies, but only if those make the map better, not just because they are there.

                            About c++, it just happens to be the best multi-purpose language, and also the most widely used nowadays.

                            quote:

                            Originally posted by markusf on 05-17-2000 10:54 PM
                            As for the AI, if someone felt like doing the all the processing in lisp(god forbid), he could compile it to a binary create a shell C+ DLL and then link it in?


                            Yes, we are going to make a ai system, where all ai data is in dll's, and the game itself has no ai in it, just dll reading stuff. So, the player can create his own ai files with his favorite language (if he can make dll's with it, that is) and use them in the game. We haven't yet figured out how this system works (we have hardly started the project), but we will keep you all informed about everything.

                            If you are interested in our project, check out the Openciv3 thread in the Alternate Civs forum, or our webpage at civ3.sourceforge.net. If you don't know c++, you can take part to the designing process, but if you can program c++ and want to help, that's great! We could use more programmers. But if you just want to keep informed about the project, check those places I mentioned above.

                            Comment


                            • I am a lead designer, and oversee development and design of $$$ projects for fortune 500 companies. I could help in the design process, as for programming c++ i have forgotten most of it, and the syntax is so alien, but its fast.(the only advantage of C in my opinion)
                              Join the army, travel to foreign countries, meet exotic people -
                              and kill them!

                              Comment


                              • That is great!

                                Check out the webpage, and please join the discussion at the Alternative Civs Forums!

                                Welcome on board!
                                "It is not enough to be alive. Sunshine, freedom and a little flower you have got to have."
                                - Hans Christian Andersen

                                GGS Website

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